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Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of the new java.net?

It's much improved
20% (19 votes)
It's better, but some areas still need improvement
45% (43 votes)
I like java.net about the same as I did before
9% (9 votes)
The old site was better
19% (18 votes)
I don't know
3% (3 votes)
Other
4% (4 votes)
Total votes: 96

Comments

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

let's make java.net better and the best, because this can bring java brand to the better place, but we need more than current, like transform it become agile/scrum platform, CI workspace, but in compare with old java.net, it way better.

we migrate all projects to Java.net, thx give me more project limit

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

I think whoever is working on Java.net needs to seriously check out SourceForge.net and GitHub.com. I find Java.net to be quite "anti-social" with its anemic feature set. Heck, I'm honestly trying to use it out of loyalty and all, but it is pretty frustrating in some areas, and I'm debating going back to SourceForge for my own projects because who has time to waste. These are rather simple areas too. For instance:

1) How do I contact an arbitrary user of Java.net? So, I know their name and their user name, and I want to send them a message. On sourceforge I can simply email them at a special address as theirusername@users.sourceforge.net. I tried similar things on Java.net, and nothing worked. There isn't anything to make this obvious.

2) SourceForge, again, if I click on a users name on the site, it will take me to their profile page. There is a link right there "Send me a message" which if I click brings up a simple form where I can initiate contact or fire off a quick message with a subject. This will send them an email from my alias on SourceForge.

3) Wiki, email, other issue etc. SourceForge gives people different choices of Wiki types and issue trackers along with other applications which can be setup and used such as Mantis, dotProject, etc. So, one flexibility. Too, those tools on their site seem to have a good uptime. Today, my Wiki on a Java.net project couldn't add a new page for a while. Also, seems there are email outages or something on Java.net where messages don't always come through quickly. Not sure the deal there, but that type stuff is annoying. Often, I have to refresh a page on Java.net because the CSS and all is jumbled up. All seems to point to instability.

4) Menu layout per feature set is wonk. For instance, if I'm editing in the Wiki. I may want to edit a page or navigate around in pages. All that nav layout is down in the middle and in a weird position. Check out the interface to Confluence or something like MediaWiki. In MediaWiki I may have to enter in the name of a new page, but I can do that and then click create, edit, etc right there in the top of the page. I don't have to move my mouse around as much. Were it to have a "New Page" link at the top, then that would nearly be perfect for page additions. Confluence has the editing and managing experience down better though.

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

Hi Wade,

The umbrella response I can give to you is that we have spent the last year just trying to keep the site going, and never had time to look at the competition until now. In the last few months of Sun's existence, the plan from the executive level was to kill at least the forge part of Java.net (no migration, owners deal with Collab directly to get their code back) if not the entire site. Staying where we were wasn't an option - there was minimal support for a large expense and no path to upgrade our old infrastructure (we planned it several times but they were never able to get it working on a staging server, much less move the whole site to production). Since Oracle has been in charge I've been able to hire people and make major decisions about our infrastructure. We decided to go with drupal for the CMS/social side of the site because it has a lot of flexibility to help us grow in that way over the next couple of years.  We definitely don't plan to stay where we are right now, and unlike the old site, users (and I) can make feature requests that will actually happen, because we're rolling out new versions of the forge side of the site every two weeks, and do minor upgrades to the CMS on the fly pretty regularly. Some more details in response to your statements: 

1. username@java.net is our standard mail alias for all users on the site.  I'm working on rewriting the FAQ/documentation from the old site to replace all the Collab info with relevant tips on the new infrastructure.  I hope to have it up in the next few weeks. 

2. We're working on richer profile pages down the road.  This was a major reason for choosing Drupal, there are all kinds of modules to support this kind of thing.  It's about third in line in our priorities right now.  Our top two are to get the community management workflow in place/improve the community pages and user experience and to build a better dashboard page for projects that will have more information for users on activity in a project, milestones, downloads, etc.

3. The drupal half of the site has been very stable with good uptime for a few months now.  The Kenai team is moving all five stacks (Kenai, Java.net, NetBeans.org, OpenOffice.org, ODFToolkit) to new hardware which should iron out the other performance issues you're seeing in the next few weeks.  As far as options go, we're moving in that direction.  At CollabNet the only options were SVN (we supported CVS but did not create new CVS projects in the last couple of years) and their bug tracker, and they didn't have a wiki.  Now you can choose between SVN, Mercurial, and Git, and you can have multiple repos per project, and you can choose between JIRA and issuezilla, and we're now offering Maven support directly from Sonatype.  There isn't a lot of budget to license some of the commercial tools, but as tools evolve we will be keeping an eye out for things to add here.  

4. I don't love the wiki either.  Please make specific suggestions for improvement in the Kenai bug tracker here: http://kenai.com/jira/browse/KENAI - tag them "javanet" and they will be added to my queue so I can give input on prioritization.  That goes for any improvements you'd like to see in project tools.  

 

 

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

OK, one more little thing I just noticed, and that is here when I reply and click preview. I see my message in the editor, and I do not see what it will actually look like as HTML on the page. Seems kind of strange. Seems I would still see the editor or a button "Edit" and then I would see the HTML as it will be displayed after I click "Save". Too, does Save convey the correct meaning? I'm submitting a reply. Seems Submit would be more logical.

Now, saying that, I did just notice after I clicked preview there seemed to be a text appear which perhaps was the HTML, but then it went away. I will try to attach an image to show what I see right now. Wait...I have to put the image online some where first...thus I can't attach my screen shot here easily. That makes it difficult. Oh well, I have a screen shot. I will send it to someone.

Thanks again,

Wade

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

You're right. I don't comment to blog posts enough so I didn't notice before. :)

Bug filed here: http://java.net/jira/browse/ABOUT-75

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

Oh yeah, I voted "It's better, but some areas still need improvement".

Thanks for everything,

Wade

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

On sending emails to username@java.net. I sent an email to wadechandler@java.net yesterday. I didn't get it until sometime last night. There was a very long delay. I have seen this in the NetBeans mailing lists as well. So, that does work, but the delays make people not use them as much from my experience. In NetBeans world, we have been discussing with the NB team about this issue. They have noticed it exists, and wondering how to correct it. It affects users and the project. Same for all projects on Java.net if such delays occur too frequently. We have seen that the emails at times will be delayed and then come in spurts. This disrupts the work flow when people are trying to actually work on something.

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

Agreed. I think we'll see some major improvements as they get the performance issues worked out over the next couple of weeks.

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

The main thing is I don't look at Java.net and think...hmmm...those folks sure are checking out their competition and trying to out do them. That is my honest thought on it.

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

Congratulations for the great work done! I use Java.net almost everyday. CEJUG's mailing lists and projects are hosted there. Thanks for this service!

In addition, I would suggest a RESTful interface to manage mailinglists. Things that we already do using email, but it is hard to automate in a custom application, like: subscribe, unsubscribe, isSubscribed, and post messages. I'm not asking too much, ahn?! It would be enough to simplify our management, since we implemented a JEE application to manage our JUG.

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

Thanks!

Please put any requests for improvements on project tools into the Kenai bug tracker here: http://kenai.com/jira/browse/KENAI

Tag them "javanet" and I'll be able to add them to my priority list. We do want to improve usability across the board wherever possible.

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

I sorely miss the old (Sun's) forum software. I used to post a lot in the Glassfish forum, but with the current software, I lost a couple of posts due to broken preview or server failures, so I've more or less stopped posting and use the forums read-only or via the mailing lists. Often, the formatting is garbled. And please, please, please: These forums are about software, so there must be an easy way of including indented Java code or XML snippets!

The information policy was a disaster. Email subscriptions stopped working all of a sudden, migration of Glassfish Bugzilla to JIRA was never announced.

If this migration of the community platform is by any means representative of the way that Oracle runs large customer projects, I'd think twice before contracting Oracle...

Regards,

Harald

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

Harald,

Thanks for your comments. The old Jive software we were using had been EOLed and unsupported for several years, and the new package was too expensive for us to consider. We made the decision to go with Drupal for a variety of reasons, and while their forum package isn't the best available, Drupal fit our other criteria for the site as a whole so we went with it. It's much more stable now than it was a few months ago.

We have a bug about the code formatting (http://java.net/jira/browse/ABOUT-10) and will be working on it in the next couple of weeks.

There were a lot of issues around communication. GlassFish wanted to do their own thing and go first. After they were done we had to decide the best ways to publicize the move without spamming too many people (600,000 members but only a fraction of that are active), and without relying on CollabNet's help with communication. Since CollabNet was the gatekeeper for all of our information, that was a problem (and another good reason for leaving). If I had to do this again, I'd make some different choices than I did. Ironically, some people also complained about too much communication - if I sent an email that was too long they wouldn't read it and then complain that they didn't know what was going on.

Somehow Oracle always ends up the bad guy in public opinion, which I think is kind of funny. Java.net doesn't make any money. (Ever seen a donation button or an ad?) Sun went out of business largely because we didn't make any money. Oracle has invested a ton of money and time to improve things here where Sun wouldn't, even though I'll never be able to show any profitability from Java.net. The site is far from perfect, but I hope you'll agree that we're making improvements over time and that this site is better than no site at all. Oracle should get some credit for that. :)

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

The old version was pretty awful but this migration was so riddled with problems. I still run into problems in the forums where some messages just can't be opened, email only now started working again (maybe?). Our site visitors dropped significantly and we had to migrate lots of our support to stackoverflow and the blog, the new web editing tools aren't documented at all and there are tons of areas where I still have no idea about how to implement the basic things that used to work in Java.net.

A basic single point where people can find out how to accomplish things and where to report problems would have been helpful

Re: Now that you're accustomed to it, what do you think of ...

Agreed. I'm working on documentation now. We had seven years worth of stuff written up that supported the old Collab/O'Reilly infrastructure. Now we have me, learning how the tools work right along with everybody else, and then working on documentation as I have time.

http://about.java.net/ is where I've starting working on the documentation, and is also where you can report any issues on the site.

Because of the two different systems we sit on, and the two different teams that maintain them, we have two issue trackers. Forge/project space issues can go to http://kenai.com/jira/browse/KENAI and everything else can go to http://java.net/jira/browse/ABOUT - if you're not sure, use the about JIRA and I'll make sure it gets to the right place.

The forums have been improving and I expect to see a big jump in email performance shortly. The Kenai team is working on that right now.

Thanks for taking the time to comment.