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your current Glassfish evaluation

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aldian
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Joined: 2008-06-12

Hi everybody

I am currently working on a comparative study of Jonas, Jboss, Glassfish, Geronimo. For all technical questions, I already have the information on the internet, and those four are the only one application servers that can meet my needs. But I would like to know what do experienced user think about their ergonomy. For each of them, I am posting the same question on their respective forum. Please be honest and objective so that I can make a good comparison (even if for you Glassfish is clearly the best ;)).

About Glassfish, what evaluation (please give a mark from 1=worst to 10=best) would you give concerning the following tests?

* easy to install
* easy deployment
* easy administration
* easy IDE interfacing
* easy developement

Thank You very much !

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aldian
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Joined: 2008-06-12

Following your advice, I have performed an installation of glassfish. It was very easy, and it is a good point.

But as you can see on the attached files, it seems that the only load balancing available in the standard version is the HTTP one. I took a look at this documentation: http://dlc.sun.com/pdf/820-4281/820-4281.pdf and tried to create a domain with the entreprise profile since it seems it is the only one with HA features. But as you can see in the result of the command line, it seems that some more libraries are needed. I really don't understand why it is so complex. It would have been so simple to include those libraries in the standard package!

Do you know where I could find the additional libraries? Theorically there should be at least an additional package, but I can't figure where it is..

aldian
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Joined: 2008-06-12

> GlassFish is in its second major release and third
> year of supporting
> Java EE 5. EJB load-balancing is there for all
> versions of EJBs, 2.x
> and 3.0.

Very good news! :)

I am now looking for an incontestable evidence that there is [u]EJB3 load-balancing[/u] in the [b]free[/b] and [b]open-source[/b] edition of glassfish. If you know where this proof could be found, could you please tell me?

I am sad to have to ask you again about this because you are so kind and have already used so much time to help me, but none of the links you gave me and of the one I have found myself allow to conclude on these 3 criterias (incontestable, free and open source, EJB3 load balancing). In some links we have met some, but never the three together...

Thank you very much!

Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine

On Mar 12, 2009, at 12:02, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:

> Ok thank you very much for the reply. The video was very
> interesting, but didn't help so much since it only spoke about HTTP-
> load balancing.

Indeed. Another one is coming up I understand. Right John? ;)

> But starting from the links you gave me, I finally managed to find
> out some clues of a load-balancing other than HTTP.
>
> Here: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4341/abdbd?a=view they
> are speaking about Setting up RMI-IIOP Load Balancing and Failover
> for applications running in the application client container (ACC),
> and there: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4336/beakv?a=view ,
> they are explaining what is the ACC and that it contains EJB. Now I
> am looking for an evidence that an EJB3 (and if possible JNDI) load-
> balancing exists, since the EJB version is not precised.

GlassFish is in its second major release and third year of supporting
Java EE 5. EJB load-balancing is there for all versions of EJBs, 2.x
and 3.0.

> As for Glassfish v3, it doesn't seem very interesting at all: this
> comparison: https://glassfish.dev.java.net/public/comparing_v2_and_v3.html
> shows that a lot of very interesting features like EJB3, JMS,
> Application Client Container, load balancing and clustering are only
> available in version 2

The comparison is between v2 and v3 "Prelude" which is essentially a
web container at this point.
If EJB container is what you need, stick to v2 until v3 ships with
full EE and clustering support.
Many people are excited about v3 (modular architecture with fast
startup, load-on demand, small memory footprint, etc...). You may not
be in that category which is fine. v3 is not a replacement for v2 just
yet.

> If I can make a little remark, there are some things to improve in
> the communication. It is unbelievable that such very important
> features like EJB load balancing are hidden in the far bottom of the
> documentation, and that you have to dig so much to find
> documentation about it. When you compare to JOnAS' beautiful
> document http://jonas.objectweb.org/JONAS_5_1_0/doc/doc-en/html/clustering_guide....
> , glassfish's documentation is far behind.

thanks. I'll pass this along to the documentation team (note we have a
dedicated docs@glassfish.dev.java.net mailing list set up for such
feedback).
EJB clustering is very important de many. It's always hard to strike a
balance between the many features of a product.

cheers,
-Alexis

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John Clingan

On 03/12/09 06:42, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine wrote:
>
> On Mar 12, 2009, at 12:02, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
>> Ok thank you very much for the reply. The video was very interesting,
>> but didn't help so much since it only spoke about HTTP-load balancing.
>
> Indeed. Another one is coming up I understand. Right John? ;)
>
Some day. I do these in my non-existent spare time :-)

>> But starting from the links you gave me, I finally managed to find
>> out some clues of a load-balancing other than HTTP.
>>
>> Here: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4341/abdbd?a=view they are
>> speaking about Setting up RMI-IIOP Load Balancing and Failover for
>> applications running in the application client container (ACC), and
>> there: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4336/beakv?a=view , they
>> are explaining what is the ACC and that it contains EJB. Now I am
>> looking for an evidence that an EJB3 (and if possible JNDI)
>> load-balancing exists, since the EJB version is not precised.
>
> GlassFish is in its second major release and third year of supporting
> Java EE 5. EJB load-balancing is there for all versions of EJBs, 2.x
> and 3.0.
>
>> As for Glassfish v3, it doesn't seem very interesting at all: this
>> comparison:
>> https://glassfish.dev.java.net/public/comparing_v2_and_v3.html shows
>> that a lot of very interesting features like EJB3, JMS, Application
>> Client Container, load balancing and clustering are only available in
>> version 2
>
> The comparison is between v2 and v3 "Prelude" which is essentially a
> web container at this point.
> If EJB container is what you need, stick to v2 until v3 ships with
> full EE and clustering support.
> Many people are excited about v3 (modular architecture with fast
> startup, load-on demand, small memory footprint, etc...). You may not
> be in that category which is fine. v3 is not a replacement for v2 just
> yet.
>
>> If I can make a little remark, there are some things to improve in
>> the communication. It is unbelievable that such very important
>> features like EJB load balancing are hidden in the far bottom of the
>> documentation, and that you have to dig so much to find documentation
>> about it. When you compare to JOnAS' beautiful document
>> http://jonas.objectweb.org/JONAS_5_1_0/doc/doc-en/html/clustering_guide.... ,
>> glassfish's documentation is far behind.
>
> thanks. I'll pass this along to the documentation team (note we have a
> dedicated docs@glassfish.dev.java.net mailing list set up for such
> feedback).
> EJB clustering is very important de many. It's always hard to strike a
> balance between the many features of a product.
>
> cheers,
> -Alexis
>
>> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>>
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>>
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Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine

On Mar 11, 2009, at 14:45, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:

> Ok thank you very much for your very interesting answers. I might re-
> evaluate glassfish with your help.
>
> Actually, we have eliminated all app servers not meeting these
> essential requirements:
> • JEE application server
> • free and open-source
> • lot of documentation
> • load balancing
> • EJB3
> • persistence
> • web services
> • portability
> This is why Tomcat and Websphere are not in the list. And there are
> no many other studies findable on the Internet. Among the few ones,
> too much compare all the application servers on features they all
> have, and conclude that they are all trustable. But our company is
> looking for what plus and what minus they have compared to each
> other in order to be sure, not to determine the best one, but the
> most interressant for our needs.
>
>
> So your comments about glassfish clusturing, failover, and load
> balancing capacities are very interessant for us. But we have
> difficulties to see the frontier between Sun Java Server Enterprise
> Edition and Glassfish. Are you sure the clusturing, failover, and
> load balancing capacities you talked about are in glassfish, in the
> open-source project?

Sun was confusing a number of people by having 'glassfish' on one side
and 'sun java system app server' on the other side while the two
products were really one and the same. So we changed the later name to
"Sun GlassFish Enterprise".

Everything I've described (including all the clustering/LB parts) is
part of the open source bits. Sun GlassFish Enterprise is essentially
a supported offering from Sun. One notable exception is GlassFish
Enterprise Manager [1] which provides advanced production tools for
supported customers.

Note also that the release model of GlassFish is to ship the open
source and supported bits at the same time with the same level of
quality.
I'd recommend you listen to the latest episode of the GlassFish
Podcast where this is explained http://blogs.sun.com/glassfishpodcast/entry/episode_029_introducing_sun_...

This other episode touches on similar topics: http://blogs.sun.com/glassfishpodcast/entry/episode_025_discussion_with_...

cheers,
-Alexis

[1]: http://blogs.sun.com/nazrul/entry/glassfish_enterprise_manager

> If you could gave us the link to the correct web page? Because we
> don't have find any evidence of it so far

Here an entry in the FAQ: http://wiki.glassfish.java.net/Wiki.jsp?page=FaqGlassFishV2vsSJSAS91

>
> Thank you very much for helping
> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>
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aldian
Offline
Joined: 2008-06-12

> > If you could gave us the link to the correct web
> page? Because we
> > don't have find any evidence of it so far
>
> Here an entry in the FAQ:
> http://wiki.glassfish.java.net/Wiki.jsp?page=FaqGlassF
> ishV2vsSJSAS91

I am affraid that the word "load balancing" doesn't appear in this entry, and the word clustering (which is linked to it but has a different meaning) appears just once and there is no link about it. To give you an example, the Jonas Users gave me this page: http://jonas.objectweb.org/JONAS_5_1_0/doc/doc-en/html/clustering_guide.... The first illustration ( http://jonas.objectweb.org/JONAS_5_1_0/doc/resources/images/clustering/c...) illustrate very well the two types of load balancing, the HTTP one based on apache that doesn't intesrest us, and the JMS and EJB ones that interest us a lot.

I am sorry to insist so much on that point, because you are so kind to answer me so quickly, but the back-end load-balancing point is essential for us, and if we doesn't have a complete documentation on it, we won't take the risk to use Glassfish, even if it has a lot of others functionnalities that are far in advance on its competitors.

Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine

The GlassFish documentation is here: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/1343.6?
Specifically, the HA Admin guide: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4341
It covers HTTP, JMS, and IIOP load-balancing.

I would suggest you look at the 10-minute demo by John Clingan: http://blogs.sun.com/jclingan/entry/glassfish_clustering_in_under_10
It starts off using the bits from glassfish.org. 100% open source.

Shoal is the underlying (open source) technology for GlassFish: http://shoal.dev.java.net
This is how GlassFish offers GMS (Group Management System) and
achieves in-memory replication of stateful data.

-Alexis

On Mar 11, 2009, at 17:24, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:

>>> If you could gave us the link to the correct web
>> page? Because we
>>> don't have find any evidence of it so far
>>
>> Here an entry in the FAQ:
>> http://wiki.glassfish.java.net/Wiki.jsp?page=FaqGlassF
>> ishV2vsSJSAS91
>
> I am affraid that the word "load balancing" doesn't appear in this
> entry, and the word clustering (which is linked to it but has a
> different meaning) appears just once and there is no link about it.
> To give you an example, the Jonas Users gave me this page: http://jonas.objectweb.org/JONAS_5_1_0/doc/doc-en/html/clustering_guide....
> The first illustration ( http://jonas.objectweb.org/JONAS_5_1_0/doc/resources/images/clustering/c...)
> illustrate very well the two types of load balancing, the HTTP one
> based on apache that doesn't intesrest us, and the JMS and EJB ones
> that interest us a lot.
>
> I am sorry to insist so much on that point, because you are so kind
> to answer me so quickly, but the back-end load-balancing point is
> essential for us, and if we doesn't have a complete documentation on
> it, we won't take the risk to use Glassfish, even if it has a lot of
> others functionnalities that are far in advance on its competitors.
> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=336417
>
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John Clingan

+1.

Please give GlassFish a try, perhaps following the screencast Alexis
linked to. As Alexis mentions, it only takes 10 minutes (or less). Our
feedback is consistently positive regarding ease of use. That being
said, we are *actively* trying to do even better, and are engaging the
community on those improvements:
http://blogs.sun.com/jasondlee/entry/changes_are_coming_to_the
http://www.nabble.com/Opinions-Wanted:-v3-GUI-Prototype-
td22211211.html (note that the prototype is currently offline since it
was on a laptop)

Also note that users should not edit XML files with GlassFish. Please
use the GUI or fully featured CLI (asadmin). The CLI minimizes
configuration errors and simplifies automation. If you would like to
learn more about the CLI, visit The Aquarium Channel on UStream:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1147072

There are dozens of detailed webinars available in addition to asadmin:
http://wikis.sun.com/display/TheAquarium/GlassFishDotTV
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/theaquarium

On Mar 11, 2009, at 9:38 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine wrote:

> The GlassFish documentation is here: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/1343.6?
> Specifically, the HA Admin guide: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4341
> It covers HTTP, JMS, and IIOP load-balancing.
>
> I would suggest you look at the 10-minute demo by John Clingan: http://blogs.sun.com/jclingan/entry/glassfish_clustering_in_under_10
> It starts off using the bits from glassfish.org. 100% open source.
>
> Shoal is the underlying (open source) technology for GlassFish: http://shoal.dev.java.net
> This is how GlassFish offers GMS (Group Management System) and
> achieves in-memory replication of stateful data.
>
> -Alexis
>
>
> On Mar 11, 2009, at 17:24, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
>>>> If you could gave us the link to the correct web
>>> page? Because we
>>>> don't have find any evidence of it so far
>>>
>>> Here an entry in the FAQ:
>>> http://wiki.glassfish.java.net/Wiki.jsp?page=FaqGlassF
>>> ishV2vsSJSAS91
>>
>> I am affraid that the word "load balancing" doesn't appear in this
>> entry, and the word clustering (which is linked to it but has a
>> different meaning) appears just once and there is no link about it.
>> To give you an example, the Jonas Users gave me this page: http://jonas.objectweb.org/JONAS_5_1_0/doc/doc-en/html/clustering_guide....
>> The first illustration ( http://jonas.objectweb.org/JONAS_5_1_0/doc/resources/images/clustering/c...)
>> illustrate very well the two types of load balancing, the HTTP one
>> based on apache that doesn't intesrest us, and the JMS and EJB ones
>> that interest us a lot.
>>
>> I am sorry to insist so much on that point, because you are so kind
>> to answer me so quickly, but the back-end load-balancing point is
>> essential for us, and if we doesn't have a complete documentation
>> on it, we won't take the risk to use Glassfish, even if it has a
>> lot of others functionnalities that are far in advance on its
>> competitors.
>> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>>
>> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=336417
>>
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>>
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aldian
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Joined: 2008-06-12

Ok thank you very much for the reply. The video was very interesting, but didn't help so much since it only spoke about HTTP-load balancing. But starting from the links you gave me, I finally managed to find out some clues of a load-balancing other than HTTP.

Here: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4341/abdbd?a=view they are speaking about Setting up RMI-IIOP Load Balancing and Failover for applications running in the application client container (ACC), and there: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4336/beakv?a=view , they are explaining what is the ACC and that it contains EJB. Now I am looking for an evidence that an EJB3 (and if possible JNDI) load-balancing exists, since the EJB version is not precised.

As for Glassfish v3, it doesn't seem very interesting at all: this comparison: https://glassfish.dev.java.net/public/comparing_v2_and_v3.html shows that a lot of very interesting features like EJB3, JMS, Application Client Container, load balancing and clustering are only available in version 2.

If I can make a little remark, there are some things to improve in the communication. It is unbelievable that such very important features like EJB load balancing are hidden in the far bottom of the documentation, and that you have to dig so much to find documentation about it. When you compare to JOnAS' beautiful document http://jonas.objectweb.org/JONAS_5_1_0/doc/doc-en/html/clustering_guide.... , glassfish's documentation is far behind.

aldian
Offline
Joined: 2008-06-12

I made a little error. Part of the clues I found are from Sun GlassFish Enterprise Server which is not open source.

I am restarting from the beginning looking for an EJB load balancer in Glassfish open source edition as you said it existed, but I begin to wonder if I will find it one day. Any help is welcomed ;)

Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine

On Mar 12, 2009, at 14:27, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:

> I made a little error. Part of the clues I found are from Sun
> GlassFish Enterprise Server which is not open source.

Please check http://wiki.glassfish.java.net/Wiki.jsp?page=FaqGlassFishV2vsSJSAS91
again.
There is no difference in space space.
It would actually be technically difficult to implement 2 different
product, one with and the other one without the EJB clustering/load-
balancing features. At this point I can only suggest you download
GlassFish from glassfish.org and try the feature for yourself.

-Alexis

> I am restarting from the beginning looking for an EJB load balancer
> in Glassfish open source edition as you said it existed, but I begin
> to wonder if I will find it one day. Any help is welcomed ;)
> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=336642
>
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John Clingan

http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-4287/fxxqs?a=view

On Mar 12, 2009, at 6:54 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine wrote:

>
> On Mar 12, 2009, at 14:27, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
>> I made a little error. Part of the clues I found are from Sun
>> GlassFish Enterprise Server which is not open source.
>
> Please check http://wiki.glassfish.java.net/Wiki.jsp?page=FaqGlassFishV2vsSJSAS91
> again.
> There is no difference in space space.
> It would actually be technically difficult to implement 2 different
> product, one with and the other one without the EJB clustering/load-
> balancing features. At this point I can only suggest you download
> GlassFish from glassfish.org and try the feature for yourself.
>
> -Alexis
>
>> I am restarting from the beginning looking for an EJB load balancer
>> in Glassfish open source edition as you said it existed, but I
>> begin to wonder if I will find it one day. Any help is welcomed ;)
>> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>>
>> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=336642
>>
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aldian
Offline
Joined: 2008-06-12

Thank you very much :)

aldian
Offline
Joined: 2008-06-12

I just forgot to precise that one of the (theorically unbiased) external document we have studied with a lot of attention is this one: http://olex.openlogic.com/wazi/2008/application-server-comparison-matrix/ As you can see, developpers of the others servers doesn't seem to think that glassfish is so simple & easy..

Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine

A few more things based on that URL.

GlassFish is a lively project making progress on a very regular basis
(one comment reads "There will be an upgrade for GlassFish in early
2008").
So there is now an embedded story to GlassFish: see http://embedded-glassfish.dev.java.net/
and overall, GlassFish v3 is meant to be modular providing just what
the application requires and just a web container for instance (this
is what v3 Prelude does).

I suppose the comment from the Tomcat user about GlassFish being
complex is from a single user. Resistance to change could explain this.
The startup time is in no way different when used with or without
netbeans. not sure where that came from.

Other things I failed to mention previously:
- grizzly is the key to a lot of the performance benefits for
GlassFish (excellent specjappserver results btw, ask other open source
vendors about theirs....). It also provide extreme configuration help
and features like Comet/AjaxPush, suspend/resume, ARP or QoS for
requests.
- the Update Center for GlassFish - don't like toplink as the JPA
provider? Hibernate JPA is available from the update center. Want to
use previews of Java EE6? JSF 2.0, EJB 3.1 is on the update center.,
etc...

cheers,
-ALexis

On Mar 11, 2009, at 15:05, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:

> I just forgot to precise that one of the (theorically unbiased)
> external document we have studied with a lot of attention is this
> one: http://olex.openlogic.com/wazi/2008/application-server-comparison-matrix/
> As you can see, developpers of the others servers doesn't seem to
> think that glassfish is so simple & easy..
> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]

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Felipe Gaúcho

the only point I can remember regarding different containers is:

to migrate an application from one container to another is "hell"..

doesn't matter from which container to which one.. I tried between
Glassfish and JBoss.. and it is really a difficult task...

for me, it is surprising because all containers are Java EE 5
compliant servers, but the steps required to adapt persistence and
configuration files are a mess..

a dream: a tool that do this conversion automatically, or an "import
project" feature..

this would be very nice..

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 3:39 PM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
wrote:
> A few more things based on that URL.
>
> GlassFish is a lively project making progress on a very regular basis (one
> comment reads "There will be an upgrade for GlassFish in early 2008").
> So there is now an embedded story to GlassFish: see
> http://embedded-glassfish.dev.java.net/ and overall, GlassFish v3 is meant
> to be modular providing just what the application requires and just a web
> container for instance (this is what v3 Prelude does).
>
> I suppose the comment from the Tomcat user about GlassFish being complex is
> from a single user. Resistance to change could explain this.
> The startup time is in no way different when used with or without netbeans.
> not sure where that came from.
>
> Other things I failed to mention previously:
> - grizzly is the key to a lot of the performance benefits for GlassFish
> (excellent specjappserver results btw, ask other open source vendors about
> theirs....). It also provide extreme configuration help and features like
> Comet/AjaxPush, suspend/resume, ARP or QoS for requests.
> - the Update Center for GlassFish - don't like toplink as the JPA provider?
> Hibernate JPA is available from the update center. Want to use previews of
> Java EE6? JSF 2.0, EJB 3.1 is on the update center., etc...
>
> cheers,
> -ALexis
>
>
> On Mar 11, 2009, at 15:05, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
>> I just forgot to precise that one of the (theorically unbiased) external
>> document we have studied with a lot of attention is this one:
>> http://olex.openlogic.com/wazi/2008/application-server-comparison-matrix/ As
>> you can see, developpers of the others servers doesn't seem to think that
>> glassfish is so simple & easy..
>> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>
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ai109478
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Joined: 2005-03-29

re: hard to use comment...

I think GlassFish offers the best user experience. I have seen many users' comments in this area. Here is a blog that I wrote sometime back: http://blogs.sun.com/nazrul/entry/application_server_user_experience_is

You will find more stories at http://blogs.sun.com/stories/

Under advantage column, one of the big item that is missing for GlassFish is price/performance. GlassFish offers best price/performance in the industry. Refer to this blog I wrote some time back: http://blogs.sun.com/nazrul/entry/glassfish_v2_the_fastest_application

More information at http://blogs.sun.com/tomdaly/

Nazrul

aldian
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Joined: 2008-06-12

Thank you very much for the reply. It is very interesting.

Kristian Rink

Hi there;

glad I could be of some help. :)

glassfish@javadesktop.org schrieb:
[...]
> We are planning to develop an operation support system which will be
> interfaced with a NMS. As for the load balancing with apache, it doesn't
> fit to us, because we don't need to make load balancing between our
> consumers, but between all our equipements (we have hundreds of them).

Sounds interesting... May I, however, ask which kind of "equipment" we are
talking about? Mainly server machines? Embedded devices? I think glassfishv2
clustering really can be beneficial in your use case, given the machines are
up to bear the load of a Java EE application server. Do you already have an
idea what part of the Java EE technologies you are likely to use for that?
Is the part of the application to run inside glassfishv2 mainly
"infrastructure" / application core or more "user interface" / web frontends?

Cheers,
Kristian

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aldian
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Hi and thanks to both of you for helping :)

I should insist on the fact that we don't have many client applications (web browser or dektop application). So the client number is definetly not a problem. It is realy a back-end type of load balancing we want to perform. What I can say about our equipements is that they are embeded device in relation with the digital TV domain. We plan to use EJB3 to develop our OSS function on the JEE server, and to use Web services to communicate with outdoor.Concerning the part of application to run inside glassfish, it is a NGOSS application type: it will be interfaced to a Network Management System to offer services such as fault management.

aldian
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Hello Everybody

I have made a comparative array with all the clues I have found the pas week. I am affraid I may have collected some myths, so feel free to explain all incorrect data if you feel like it is incorrect ;)

Here is the Array:

[img]http://www.imagehostingsite.com/images/gvrtjgkdjimlnzjyod2z.png[/img]
If the image won't open, please visit this link: [url=http://www.imagehostingsite.com/images/gvrtjgkdjimlnzjyod2z.png]Comparative Array[/url]

Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine

Hi there,

I'm not sure what you mean by "hard to use". I'd claim that GlassFish
is easier than most other open source app servers (and maybe less
bloated that commercial ones) but I'm a bit biased here...

Also, "slow to start" doesn't seem fair in comparison to other
appservers. I think the only one that starts faster than v2.1 is
Tomcat which is not on your list.

"very complex config files", hum... GlassFish has one single, easy-to-
read, well documented config file : domain.xml.

Re-LoadBalancing, One of GlassFish's strong points is that its
clustering doesn't require any specific load-balancing. In other words
the LB does not need to know how the cluster deals with replicas. Any
LB capable of session affinity will do. GlassFish supports Apache, Sun
Web Server, and even IIS. Network load-balancers (hardware or
software) can also be used. Oh, and of course, we have IIOP load-
balancing too, not just front-end.

In the "Advantages" section, I'd add :
- "Metro" as the one-stop-shop for Web Services
- The 'asadmin' command line interface and the Web Admin Console.

There's probably more to it but I'll let others chime in.

cheers,
-Alexis

On Mar 11, 2009, at 9:55, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:

> Hello Everybody
>
> I have made a comparative array with all the clues I have found the
> pas week. I am affraid I may have collected some myths, so feel free
> to explain all incorrect data if you feel like it is incorrect ;)
>
> Here is the Array:
>
> [img]http://www.imagehostingsite.com/images/
> gvrtjgkdjimlnzjyod2z.png[/img]
> If the image won't open, please visit this link: [url=http://www.imagehostingsite.com/images/gvrtjgkdjimlnzjyod2z.png
> ]Comparative Array[/url]
> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=336265
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@glassfish.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@glassfish.dev.java.net
>

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Felipe Gaúcho

I am using Websphere, Tomcat, JBoss and Glassfish in my day-by-day work..

Glassfish is far the most easy to configure...

About performance, who knows.. you need to establish benchmarks and it
is very hard to be fair on that .. but I never noticed any performance
loss on Glassfish side. .

I would prefer to compare only Java EE Containers - what removes
Tomcat from the list.. and "velocity" should be parametrized with the
kind of application you are talking about..

V3 and other "lightweight" options only make sense if you are talking
about pure web-applications, and I believe j2ee containers are more
tailored for heavy resource consumers (jms, javamail, ejb. etc..) than
simple toy html examples..

yes, you can load a web servers under a second... and so what ? what
you do with that ? just deliver html pages ? ok, it is not enough for
serious business. .. IMHO...

just my 2 cents..

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Alexis Moussine-Pouchkine
wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "hard to use". I'd claim that GlassFish is
> easier than most other open source app servers (and maybe less bloated that
> commercial ones) but I'm a bit biased here...
>
> Also, "slow to start" doesn't seem fair in comparison to other appservers. I
> think the only one that starts faster than v2.1 is Tomcat which is not on
> your list.
>
> "very complex config files", hum... GlassFish has one single, easy-to-read,
> well documented config file : domain.xml.
>
> Re-LoadBalancing, One of GlassFish's strong points is that its clustering
> doesn't require any specific load-balancing. In other words the LB does not
> need to know how the cluster deals with replicas. Any LB capable of session
> affinity will do. GlassFish supports Apache, Sun Web Server, and even IIS.
> Network load-balancers (hardware or software) can also be used. Oh, and of
> course, we have IIOP load-balancing too, not just front-end.
>
> In the "Advantages" section, I'd add :
> - "Metro" as the one-stop-shop for Web Services
> - The 'asadmin' command line interface and the Web Admin Console.
>
> There's probably more to it but I'll let others chime in.
>
> cheers,
> -Alexis
>
>
>
> On Mar 11, 2009, at 9:55, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
>> Hello Everybody
>>
>> I have made a comparative array with all the clues I have found the pas
>> week. I am affraid I may have collected some myths, so feel free to explain
>> all incorrect data if you feel like it is incorrect ;)
>>
>> Here is the Array:
>>
>> [img]http://www.imagehostingsite.com/images/gvrtjgkdjimlnzjyod2z.png[/img]
>> If the image won't open, please visit this link:
>> [url=http://www.imagehostingsite.com/images/gvrtjgkdjimlnzjyod2z.png]Comparative
>> Array[/url]
>> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>>
>> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=336265
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@glassfish.dev.java.net
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@glassfish.dev.java.net
>>
>
>
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aldian
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Joined: 2008-06-12

Ok thank you very much for your very interesting answers. I might re-evaluate glassfish with your help.

Actually, we have eliminated all app servers not meeting these essential requirements:
• JEE application server
• free and open-source
• lot of documentation
• load balancing
• EJB3
• persistence
• web services
• portability
This is why Tomcat and Websphere are not in the list. And there are no many other studies findable on the Internet. Among the few ones, too much compare all the application servers on features they all have, and conclude that they are all trustable. But our company is looking for what plus and what minus they have compared to each other in order to be sure, not to determine the best one, but the most interressant for our needs.

So your comments about glassfish clusturing, failover, and load balancing capacities are very interessant for us. But we have difficulties to see the frontier between Sun Java Server Enterprise Edition and Glassfish. Are you sure the clusturing, failover, and load balancing capacities you talked about are in glassfish, in the open-source project?

If you could gave us the link to the correct web page? Because we don't have find any evidence of it so far

Thank you very much for helping

Felipe Gaúcho

I missed "resources" in your criteria, like JMS, JavaMail and others.......

and I would replace "lot of documentation" by "quality of documentation"...

* persistence has nothing to do with the container itself, and despite
the embedded frameworks like toplink (Glassfish) and hibernate
(Jboss).. it is not a container evaluation criteria (IMHO).. you can
consider Hibernate or JDO runs on top of Java.. rather than associate
it to a container......

In a same way, you should avoid to evaluate Derby against HSQL or
other DBs that eventually comes pre-configured in a container as part
of the container......

full compliant container should support JPA - and that's it.....

we-services make sense only if you evaluate ws-stack (SOAP) .. because
"REST" may be implemented in pure Http connections.. there is no much
to evaluate about rest..

JEE what ? 4, 5, 6 ?? just be sure to specify a version ...

portability .. it is Java, right ?

On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 2:45 PM, wrote:
> Ok thank you very much for your very interesting answers. I might re-evaluate glassfish with your help.
>
> Actually, we have eliminated all app servers not meeting these essential requirements:
> •       JEE application server
> •       free and open-source
> •       lot of documentation
> •       load balancing
> •       EJB3
> •       persistence
> •       web services
> •       portability

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Kristian Rink

Hi there;

glassfish@javadesktop.org schrieb:
> About Glassfish, what evaluation (please give a mark from 1=worst to
> 10=best) would you give concerning the following tests?

Asking such a question on a glassfish related list _might_ end up in biased
results, given that people are likely to be here for good reasons... ;)
Nevertheless, a few thoughts on that:

> * easy to install

Installation is pretty straightforward on most platforms I have tried it so
far. Installing v3 Prelude is even more straightforward (simply unzip and
run without actually requiring it to be installed).

> * easy deployment

We tend to deploy applications using the asadmin command from both within
NetBeans and maven2 automated builds; couldn't be much easier I think. :)

> * easy administration

Yes. In fact the web administration UI in my opinion is one of the biggest
advantages glassfishv2 has to offer.

> * easy IDE interfacing

We use the NetBeans 6.x tooling with leaves nothing to be desired, both in
terms of developing applications on top of glassfishv2 and in doing
small-term server management (application redeployment, ...).

> * easy developement

Development of what? Java EE applications to run on glassfishv2, or
developing glassfishv2 itself?

I would like to add two things to the "advantages" list:

* documentation: both the community-provided infos as well as the
documentations for "glassfish branded as Sun Java System Application Server"
are state of the art and hardly could be better.

* support: being "Sun supported Open Source", you can buy subscription and
support help for open-source glassfish without having to migrate to any
"professional" / "enterprise" version of the application server. This is
good in our environment where support isn't what we _start_ with but what is
definitely required at some point.

Just out of curiosity: What purpose are you evaluating glassfishv2 for? Do
you intend to replace an existing Java EE application server, or are you
rather about to start all over anew using Java EE?

Cheers,
Kristian

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aldian
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Joined: 2008-06-12

Thank you very much for your quick reply.

I will add some more questions for you:
* Isn't there any little thing you don't like about Glassfish? Any problem, any misfunctionnement?
* Have you ever heard about Glassfish being used to develop a software which is interfaced with a NMS (Network Management System) or an OSS (operation support system)?
* what do you thing about Glassfish load balancing possibilities?

Sorry if you doesn't understand well the question, English is not my mother language, so...

To answer your question, I am working on a project of migration from old technologies to java based technologies, and we need to choose the best one fitting our requirements. And since I am posting the same request on each software's forum, I hope biased results will soustract to each other ;)

Kristian Rink

Hi again;

glassfish@javadesktop.org schrieb:
> Thank you very much for your quick reply.

No problem. :)

> * Isn't there any little thing you don't like about Glassfish?
> Any problem, any misfunctionnement?

Of course there is, like it eventually is about any other piece of software
I use in my everyday life. ;) These are not really "problems" or serious
issues however; most of these things I noticed so far are smaller annoyances
or things that just simply could be improved. To provide a few examples:

- Glassfish V2, compared to other app servers, has a pretty extensive web
user interface for viewing the server log files, setting log levels, ... .
Right here, I somehow wished the logging ui would allow configuration of log
entries being dumped to dedicated log files based on a per-application-,
per-loglevel or whatever setting. It's not really required, but having this
feature at hand would ease some things (however we used tomcat before which
doesn't have such a feature at all).

- The admin_gui provides extensive tooling, like logging or also the "Web
Services" feature (including the visual tester). To make use of them however
you should adhere to some given technologies - using the logging web tooling
makes you want to use JDK logging (or some facade on top of it, like slf4j);
using the "Web Services" tab just works with JAX-WS/metro web services but
doesn't provide access to those i.e. implemented using Axis(2) or another
SOAP stack. This, also, is not too much of a a problem as you're free to use
these technologies and have the tooling at hand or use another technology
and still have at least a rather robust, stable Java EE application server.

> * Have you ever heard about Glassfish being used to develop a software
> which is interfaced with a NMS (Network Management System) or an OSS
> (operation support system)?

Depends on what you want to do. In our own facility we make use of nagios
for monitoring our Java EE applications (using some custom nagios modules
along with a piece of glue code i.e. for querying SOAP endpoints and the
like). This, however, solely provides monitoring support which is enough in
our case but might or might not meet your requirements. What kind of
integration are you likely to need here?

> * what do you thing about Glassfish load balancing possibilities?

Also should depend upon what you need: In our environment, glassfishv2 is
being run behind an apache2 front controller which does reverse proxying /
load balancing, and it does this rather good. This, however, is so far
limited to balancing HTTP load across two gfv2 instances, and so far we do
that without having the two application servers being "clustered" together
(i.e. session replication / failover in case of one node being down will not
work which is fine with us at the moment). For other setups (i.e. using Sun
Java System Web Server), you might want to have a look at

http://blogs.sun.com/Prashanth/entry/setting_up_load_balancing_in

to get a quick clue of what's possible, the apache2 / http-proxy /
http-load-balancing way of doing things here is pretty generic and not
really tied to a glassfishv2 backend (which also has its advantages).

Cheers & all the best,
Kristian

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aldian
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Joined: 2008-06-12

Ok Thank you very much again for the long and complete reply, I will look about this :).

I leave the thread open for anyone else who would like to give also his opinion :)

aldian
Offline
Joined: 2008-06-12

sorry I didn't see your question.

We are planning to develop an operation support system which will be interfaced with a NMS. As for the load balancing with apache, it doesn't fit to us, because we don't need to make load balancing between our consumers, but between all our equipements (we have hundreds of them).

I would have another question : As for the admin_gui providing extensive tooling you talked about: is it free?

Thank you very much again :)

John Clingan

On Mar 4, 2009, at 9:00 AM, glassfish@javadesktop.org wrote:

> sorry I didn't see your question.
>
> We are planning to develop an operation support system which will be
> interfaced with a NMS. As for the load balancing with apache, it
> doesn't fit to us, because we don't need to make load balancing
> between our consumers, but between all our equipements (we have
> hundreds of them).
>
> I would have another question : As for the admin_gui providing
> extensive tooling you talked about: is it free?
>

Yes. However, even more features are available with Enterprise
Manager, through a subscription to GlassFish Enterprise Server.
http://www.sun.com/software/products/appsrvr/features_glassfish.xml
http://blogs.sun.com/nazrul/entry/glassfish_enterprise_manager

> Thank you very much again :)
> [Message sent by forum member 'aldian' (aldian)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=335106
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