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MIDP3 status?

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captainfreedom
Offline
Joined: 2007-01-10
Points: 0

Just curious. What's the current status of midp3 (aka jsr 271).
It's been 4 years in the running. Why is it taking so long? When will it be finished?

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Daniel Rocha

Many new System properties, JAD attributes, eSWT and Access Point API:

New APIs available:

* Nokia IAPInfo API
* Device dedicated Media keys (Play/Pause/Stop) access as normal key
events
* Control over End call key (Red call key) behavior for
application's lifecycle
* Enabling device theme background for Canvases for custom component
usage
* Prevention of screen saver via Nokia UI API
* Foreground/background events via pauseApp/startApp
* Flip close event for fold/clamshell devices via pauseApp
* Access to device IMEI, network access type (gprs / csd etc.),
network id, network signal level, battery level, country code, date and
time formats via system properties
* LCDUI Canvas Graphics scaling (introduced originally in 3rd ed)
enhanced for orientation switching devices

Developers and operators ask for these things, none of them available in
JSRs.

Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
[mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext Chris B
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 11:24 PM
To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?

What proprietary extensions and APIs are Nokia looking at deploying? I
know that they did the com.nokia.mid.* stuff that a few others took on
board - so maybe the manufacturers should take the lead and build and
share?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Rocha"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?

Sorry for the blog spam, but my opinion is that this is a problem with
JCP process itself, not with MIDP 3.0.

http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/daniel-rochas-forum-nokia-blog/java/20
08/08/29/java_me_jcp

[]s
Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
[mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext
meinterest@MOBILEANDEMBEDDED.ORG
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:09 PM
To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?

Yeah, MIDP 3 has been in the works too long. I think part of the problem
is that it grew in requirements substantially over time and there were
quite a few technical challenges. It defines much improved application
management and concurrency, shared libraries, new security model aligned
with CDC, the basics of a service framework, inter-midlet communication,
and a bunch of other things. Still, it took too long IMO (release early,
release often ...).

MIDP 2 is a part of MSA and there are a number of interesting MSA
devices out now, SonyEricsson, Nokia S40 5th edition, and others.

-- Terrence
[Message sent by forum member 'terrencebarr' (terrencebarr)]

http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=296222

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Chris B

What proprietary extensions and APIs are Nokia looking at deploying? I know
that they did the com.nokia.mid.* stuff that a few others took on board - so
maybe the manufacturers should take the lead and build and share?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Rocha"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?

Sorry for the blog spam, but my opinion is that this is a problem with
JCP process itself, not with MIDP 3.0.

http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/daniel-rochas-forum-nokia-blog/java/20
08/08/29/java_me_jcp

[]s
Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
[mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext
meinterest@MOBILEANDEMBEDDED.ORG
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:09 PM
To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?

Yeah, MIDP 3 has been in the works too long. I think part of the problem
is that it grew in requirements substantially over time and there were
quite a few technical challenges. It defines much improved application
management and concurrency, shared libraries, new security model aligned
with CDC, the basics of a service framework, inter-midlet communication,
and a bunch of other things. Still, it took too long IMO (release early,
release often ...).

MIDP 2 is a part of MSA and there are a number of interesting MSA
devices out now, SonyEricsson, Nokia S40 5th edition, and others.

-- Terrence
[Message sent by forum member 'terrencebarr' (terrencebarr)]

http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=296222

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Daniel Rocha

Having to accommodate multiple interests from multiple stakeholders who
are donating their time to the expert groups while holding real world
jobs seems to be slowing down the process for defining more complex
specifications.

My basic argument is that proprietary technologies are progressing much
faster than Java ME, which makes them suitable for innovative
applications. Java ME these days looks mostly a platform for simple
games and enterprise (forms) applications. One of the main reasons for
this IMO is the overall slowness in releasing new specs.

Evidence: even Nokia, known for having a pretty standard implementation
of Java ME, is starting to adopt proprietary extensions and APIs as a
way to ensure requirements from developers and operators are met without
having to wait for new JSRs.

[]s
Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
[mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext Sean Sheedy
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2008 1:36 AM
To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?

Daniel,

I read your blog post, but you don't say much about what specifically
about the JCP is the problem. Would you mind elaborating?

Sean

On Aug 29, 2008, at 4:57 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

> Sorry for the blog spam, but my opinion is that this is a problem with

> JCP process itself, not with MIDP 3.0.
>
> http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/daniel-rochas-forum-nokia-blog/java/
> 20
> 08/08/29/java_me_jcp
>
> []s
> Daniel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
> [mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext
> meinterest@MOBILEANDEMBEDDED.ORG
> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:09 PM
> To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
> Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?
>
> Yeah, MIDP 3 has been in the works too long. I think part of the
> problem is that it grew in requirements substantially over time and
> there were quite a few technical challenges. It defines much improved
> application management and concurrency, shared libraries, new security

> model aligned with CDC, the basics of a service framework,
> inter-midlet communication, and a bunch of other things. Still, it
> took too long IMO (release early, release often ...).
>
> MIDP 2 is a part of MSA and there are a number of interesting MSA
> devices out now, SonyEricsson, Nokia S40 5th edition, and others.
>
> -- Terrence
> [Message sent by forum member 'terrencebarr' (terrencebarr)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=296222
>
> =
> =
> ======================================================================
> ===
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the

> body of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send
> email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message
> "help".
>
> =
> =
> =
> =
> =
> ======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the

> body of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send
> email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message
> "help".

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terrencebarr
Offline
Joined: 2004-03-04
Points: 0

In addition to the technical challenge of creating rich APIs that work across a vast set of hardware platforms, OSes, application frameworks, and networks there is of course the strategical and business dimension that can slow things down.

The mobile/wireless space is subject to competing interests and technologies - arguably more so than most other more established technology areas. Any attempt to standardize on features, APIs, or functionality occurs in this tension field. But standards are necessary to create economies of scale that allows content creation and deployment to occur efficiently and increase the value of the ecosystem for everyone involved.

Java ME standardization is a difficult industry-wide effort and the process depends on the willingness of the participants to work efficiently for the benefit of the ecosystem. This is not necessarily a failure of the JCP but more a reflection of the difficult environment is must operate in.

-- Terrence

Daniel Rocha

Sorry for the blog spam, but my opinion is that this is a problem with
JCP process itself, not with MIDP 3.0.

http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/daniel-rochas-forum-nokia-blog/java/20
08/08/29/java_me_jcp

[]s
Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
[mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext
meinterest@MOBILEANDEMBEDDED.ORG
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:09 PM
To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?

Yeah, MIDP 3 has been in the works too long. I think part of the problem
is that it grew in requirements substantially over time and there were
quite a few technical challenges. It defines much improved application
management and concurrency, shared libraries, new security model aligned
with CDC, the basics of a service framework, inter-midlet communication,
and a bunch of other things. Still, it took too long IMO (release early,
release often ...).

MIDP 2 is a part of MSA and there are a number of interesting MSA
devices out now, SonyEricsson, Nokia S40 5th edition, and others.

-- Terrence
[Message sent by forum member 'terrencebarr' (terrencebarr)]

http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=296222

========================================================================
===
To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the
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email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message
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===========================================================================
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Sean Sheedy

Daniel,

I read your blog post, but you don't say much about what specifically
about the JCP is the problem. Would you mind elaborating?

Sean

On Aug 29, 2008, at 4:57 PM, Daniel Rocha wrote:

> Sorry for the blog spam, but my opinion is that this is a problem with
> JCP process itself, not with MIDP 3.0.
>
> http://blogs.forum.nokia.com/blog/daniel-rochas-forum-nokia-blog/java/20
> 08/08/29/java_me_jcp
>
> []s
> Daniel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
> [mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext
> meinterest@MOBILEANDEMBEDDED.ORG
> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2008 1:09 PM
> To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
> Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?
>
> Yeah, MIDP 3 has been in the works too long. I think part of the
> problem
> is that it grew in requirements substantially over time and there were
> quite a few technical challenges. It defines much improved application
> management and concurrency, shared libraries, new security model
> aligned
> with CDC, the basics of a service framework, inter-midlet
> communication,
> and a bunch of other things. Still, it took too long IMO (release
> early,
> release often ...).
>
> MIDP 2 is a part of MSA and there are a number of interesting MSA
> devices out now, SonyEricsson, Nokia S40 5th edition, and others.
>
> -- Terrence
> [Message sent by forum member 'terrencebarr' (terrencebarr)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=296222
>
> =
> =
> ======================================================================
> ===
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the
> body of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send
> email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message
> "help".
>
> =
> =
> =
> =
> =
> ======================================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in
> the body
> of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send email
> to
> listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message "help".

===========================================================================
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terrencebarr
Offline
Joined: 2004-03-04
Points: 0

Yeah, MIDP 3 has been in the works too long. I think part of the problem is that it grew in requirements substantially over time and there were quite a few technical challenges. It defines much improved application management and concurrency, shared libraries, new security model aligned with CDC, the basics of a service framework, inter-midlet communication, and a bunch of other things. Still, it took too long IMO (release early, release often ...).

MIDP 2 is a part of MSA and there are a number of interesting MSA devices out now, SonyEricsson, Nokia S40 5th edition, and others.

-- Terrence

captainfreedom
Offline
Joined: 2007-01-10
Points: 0

2010? Holly shit! Well, I guess that's how design by committee works ;)

sfitzjava
Offline
Joined: 2003-06-15
Points: 0

True that is a long time. However we have MSA phones coming out now. Mainly from the SonyEricsson groups, but there are a few new features to be had until MIDP3 comes out.

-Shawn

Daniel Rocha

Last information I had was that MIDP3 spec would be finalized 1H/09 and
first devices should hit the market Q1/10.

Long way to go!

Motorola is driving this spec, if somebody from Moto is in this list
they can give us more info.

[]s
Daniel
Forum Nokia

-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
[mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext Chris B
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 1:53 PM
To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject: Re: MIDP3 status?

There's only a handful of MIDP 2.1 phones on the market at the moment
nevermind MIDP 3!

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:23 PM
Subject: MIDP3 status?

> Just curious. What's the current status of midp3 (aka jsr 271).
> It's been 4 years in the running. Why is it taking so long? When will
it
> be finished?
> [Message sent by forum member 'captainfreedom' (captainfreedom)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=295929
>
>
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> body
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to
> listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message "help".

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Chris B

There's only a handful of MIDP 2.1 phones on the market at the moment
nevermind MIDP 3!

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 3:23 PM
Subject: MIDP3 status?

> Just curious. What's the current status of midp3 (aka jsr 271).
> It's been 4 years in the running. Why is it taking so long? When will it
> be finished?
> [Message sent by forum member 'captainfreedom' (captainfreedom)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=295929
>
> ===========================================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the
> body
> of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send email to
> listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message "help".

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