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6u10 Post-Beta Survey

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rogyeu
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Joined: 2006-07-30
Points: 0

After the first 6u10 Beta (build 14), we have come a long way in fixing bugs and collecting your comments. Thanks again for all your feedback and responses.

Now that b28 has released, please fill out this post-beta survey for the Java SE 6 Update 10 release and let us know how you feel about b28:

http://java.sun.com/webapps/survey/display?survey_id=7409

There are many fixes in last couple builds so make sure you are using the latest 6u10 build (b28) if you are not already:
https://jdk6.dev.java.net/6u10ea.html#Download

The survey will be closed on 8/11/08.

Thanks,
Roger Y.

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turks
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Joined: 2007-12-23
Points: 0

I think it broke again. In b32 I can set -Xmx96m and it does save now, but applets still only get 64m !

-Pat

rogyeu
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Joined: 2006-07-30
Points: 0

Yes, this is due to the version string contains "-rc2".

zwe
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Joined: 2003-08-06
Points: 0

> 3) 6u10 is supposed to support the java_arguments
> applet param but it doesn't work. Try the apple
> below. It loads two 3.6 meg jpg images and shows
> them side by side as a stereo viewer.
>
> http://pancyl.com/stereos.htm
>
> The applet tag has:
>
>
> It will not load in FF2 or IE6 if 6u10_b28 is the
> active plugin because it suffers an
> OutOfMemoryError.
>
> If I uninstall 6u10 and activate 6u7 and set the same
> JVM arguments in the Java Control Panel -- then the
> applet will run in both FF2 and IE6. And if I set
> the arguments in the Java Control Panel and activate
> (install) 6u10, those arguments are erased.
>
> So you have the situation where the JVM arguments in
> the applet tag are ignored or don't work and you
> can't set the JVM arguments in the Java Control
> Panel.
>
> THIS IS WORSE THAN 6u7 or any previous version. And
> I've told you this same thing before and you don't
> listen. Try it yourself --
>
> http://pancyl.com/stereos.htm
>

I have tested with Java 6 Update 10 RC (build 28) on Windows 2000, Firefox 3 and it works.
May be it was fixed? A really quick fix if it is was fixed.

Hope Update 10 would be a solid build, and helps gain Java rich client (Swing/Applet) market that Java was lost before.

demonduck
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Joined: 2008-03-14
Points: 0

> > 3) 6u10 is supposed to support the java_arguments
> > applet param but it doesn't work. Try the apple
> > below. It loads two 3.6 meg jpg images and shows
> > them side by side as a stereo viewer.
> >
> > http://pancyl.com/stereos.htm
> >
> > The applet tag has:
> >
> >
> > It will not load in FF2 or IE6 if 6u10_b28 is the
> > active plugin because it suffers an
> > OutOfMemoryError.
>
> I have tested with Java 6 Update 10 RC (build 28) on
> Windows 2000, Firefox 3 and it works.
> May be it was fixed? A really quick fix if it is was
> fixed.
>
> Hope Update 10 would be a solid build, and helps gain
> Java rich client (Swing/Applet) market that Java was
> lost before.

I guess that means that the java_arguments param [b]only [/b]works in
FF3 -- which is good.

But that leaves a huge hole. People who install 6u10 but not FF3 can't
run applets -- [b]LIKE MINE [/b]-- that need more than the default memory.

That has a huge impact on the future of my work for the next
few years.

[b]THAT SUCKS!!!!

DON"T ERASE THE JVM ARGUMENTS!!!!![/b]

How is erasing the JVM arguments going to help anybody?

Why is erasing the JVM arguments better?

rogyeu
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Joined: 2006-07-30
Points: 0

This issue (CR6737531) should only happen when the version string contains "-rc" or "-beta" in it. We have addressed the issue for the EA community to continue testing EA builds in b31.

6u10-b31 is now available for download here:
https://jdk6.dev.java.net/6u10ea.html
or
http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/ea/6u10/6u10rcDownload.jsp

Thanks,
Roger Y.

Message was edited by: rogyeu

demonduck
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Joined: 2008-03-14
Points: 0

Ran some simple minded tests on 6u10b31. Seems to me that
you have more work to do yet.

----

Fullscreen Issues:

Show sandbox warning banner in the Control Panel -> Advanced ->
Security -- has no effect.

There is no warning banner ever -- thankfully -- but
the little icon in the upper right hand corner always shows.

The blue flash around the window is completely unnecessary and
cheapens the fullscreen entry. Get rid of it. It carries no
meaning to the user except possibly to wonder what the heck
is wrong with Java fullscreen -- or his video card.

I found out through experiment that if I hide the task bar
before I go fullscreen, then the fullscreen truely fills the
screen. If I hide the task bar after I go fullscreen, the
space where the task bar was is not filled. I suppose
I should be trapping some sort of event when the task bar
is hidden so I can manually reset the size of the drawing
area. Which event would that be?

-----

JVM Arugments: -Xms384m -Xmx512m -Dsun.java2d.noddraw=true

You preserve the JVM Arguments but they now have no effect.

I set the JVM arguments to the string above and they are preserved
but they seem to have no effect on the actual memory allocated.

Also, the java_arguments parameter in the applet tag seem to have
no effect in b31 and they did work in b28. Showing memory useage
in the console would show the actual memory allocated in the parameter.

JVM Arguments
Java Plug-in 1.6.0_10-rc2
Using JRE version 1.6.0_10-rc2 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM
User home directory = C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator

PanCyl v0.3.0.c -- Wide View
Memory: 97,600K Free: 25,451K (26%) ... completed.

Try it yourself:

http://pancyl.com/LakeMary_1.htm

----

Graphics Performance:

It seems to degrade with each release.

Using my VSync applet as a test, I get over twice the speed
drawing in 1.5.0.x as I do in 1.6.0x and there is a small
slowdown from 6u7 to 6u10 so the trend of graphics performance
degratation is continuing.

Try it yourself:

http://pancyl.com/VSync.htm

java.net Forums wrote:

> demonduck,
>
> The thread "6u10 Post-Beta Survey", which you have flagged for email nofication, was updated on Sep 12, 2008 2:18:30 PM by rogyeu.
>
> rogyeu posted the following message:
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> This issue (CR6737531) should only happens when the version string contains "-rc" or "-beta" in it. We have addressed the issue for the EA community to continue testing EA builds in b31.
>
> 6u10-b31 is now available for download here:
> https://jdk6.dev.java.net/6u10ea.html or http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/ea/6u10/6u10rcDownload.jsp
>
> Thanks,
> Roger Y.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> To respond to this post:
>
> --end--

matbe
Offline
Joined: 2005-04-27
Points: 0

Well I get a somewhat different experience but some things are the same for me.

Test system:
Vista Ultimate SP1 64bit

java 32bit 1.6.0_10-rc2-b31

> Fullscreen Issues:
>
> Show sandbox warning banner in the Control Panel ->
> Advanced ->
> Security -- has no effect.

> There is no warning banner ever -- thankfully -- but
> the little icon in the upper right hand corner always
> shows.

Same here, haven't tested a restart of the plugin/browser/computer after changing it though.

> The blue flash around the window is completely
> unnecessary and
> cheapens the fullscreen entry. Get rid of it. It
> carries no
> meaning to the user except possibly to wonder what
> the heck
> is wrong with Java fullscreen -- or his video card.

Looks like some xor frame on your applet, not entirely blue. the vsync applet doesn't do the same thing, I wonder if that is due to it continously updating. If so you have a workaround there it seems :)

> I found out through experiment that if I hide the
> task bar
> before I go fullscreen, then the fullscreen truely
> fills the
> screen. If I hide the task bar after I go
> fullscreen, the
> space where the task bar was is not filled.

I experience this as well.

>
> JVM Arugments: -Xms384m -Xmx512m
> -Dsun.java2d.noddraw=true
>
> You preserve the JVM Arguments but they now have no
> effect.
>
> I set the JVM arguments to the string above and they
> are preserved
> but they seem to have no effect on the actual memory
> allocated.

Works fine for me.
Memory:: 390 336K Free: 217 700K (55%) ... ready.

As well as launching the jvisualvm (jdk bin directory) and using the visual gc plugin confirms.

> Also, the java_arguments parameter in the applet tag
> seem to have
> no effect in b31 and they did work in b28. Showing
> memory useage
> in the console would show the actual memory allocated
> in the parameter.
>
>
>
> JVM Arguments
> Java Plug-in 1.6.0_10-rc2
> Using JRE version 1.6.0_10-rc2 Java HotSpot(TM)
> Client VM
> User home directory = C:\Documents and
> Settings\Administrator
>
> PanCyl v0.3.0.c -- Wide View
> Memory: 97,600K Free: 25,451K (26%) ... completed.
>
> Try it yourself:
>
> http://pancyl.com/LakeMary_1.htm

See above, it works fine for me.

> Graphics Performance:
>
> It seems to degrade with each release.
>
> Using my VSync applet as a test, I get over twice the
> speed
> drawing in 1.5.0.x as I do in 1.6.0x and there is a
> small
> slowdown from 6u7 to 6u10 so the trend of graphics
> performance
> degratation is continuing.
>
> Try it yourself:
>
> http://pancyl.com/VSync.htm

I'm too lazy to try it with different versions of the jdk right now but it works perfectly for me and 6u10 has given obvious performance improvements when it comes to graphics for me. But you've disabled the accelrated graphics here though.

//Mattias

demonduck
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Joined: 2008-03-14
Points: 0

> Well I get a somewhat different experience but some
> things are the same for me.
>
> Test system:
> Vista Ultimate SP1 64bit
>
> java 32bit 1.6.0_10-rc2-b31
>
> > Fullscreen Issues:

> The blue flash around the window is completely
> unnecessary and
> cheapens the fullscreen entry. Get rid of it. It
> carries no
> meaning to the user except possibly to wonder what
> the heck
> is wrong with Java fullscreen -- or his video card.
>
> Looks like some xor frame on your applet, not
> entirely blue. the vsync applet doesn't do the same
> thing, I wonder if that is due to it continously
> updating. If so you have a workaround there it seems

Nope! If you look closely and quickly, the blue flash is there. The gray background masks it a bit.

> Works fine for me.
> Memory:: 390 336K Free: 217 700K (55%) ... ready.
>
> As well as launching the jvisualvm (jdk bin
> directory) and using the visual gc plugin confirms.
>

Humm... it's disturbing that Vista allocates the requested memory and my Win2K box doesn't.

Also, I have turned off acceleration just because some systems are disabled anyway -- like mine.

> > http://pancyl.com/VSync.htm
>
> I'm too lazy to try it with different versions of the
> jdk right now but it works perfectly for me and 6u10
> has given obvious performance improvements when it
> comes to graphics for me. But you've disabled the
> accelrated graphics here though.
>
> //Mattias

I am interested in your results if you get around to it. I get a big speed up with 1.5 and a slowdown with 1.6.

DD

matbe
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Joined: 2005-04-27
Points: 0

> Nope! If you look closely and quickly, the blue flash
> is there. The gray background masks it a bit.

I've tried it quite a few times and I can't see it, might just be that it is too quick on the two computers I tested (added 32bit Vista Sp1 business to the test).

> Humm... it's disturbing that Vista allocates the
> requested memory and my Win2K box doesn't.

Indeed. Unless I was mistaken about what you meant.
b32 is now available and it fixes this related bug:
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6741370

Message was edited by: matbe

demonduck
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Joined: 2008-03-14
Points: 0

It maybe too quick. But that sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it? The blue flash definitely shows on my Win2K box with or without the "don't show banner" checkbox turned on.

I tried b32 and for the problems we are talking about, it is no different. This is the memory reported by typing 'm' in the Java Console using java_arguments in the applet tag in this URL:

http://pancyl.com/LakeMary_1.htm

Java Plug-in 1.6.0_10-rc2
Using JRE version 1.6.0_10-rc2 Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM
PanCyl v0.3.0.c -- Wide View
Memory: 97,600K Free: 25,408K (26%) ... completed.

And I don't understand what the bug report is trying to say. I have set the JVM arguments in the Java Control panel to:

-Xms384m -Xmx512m -Dsun.java2d.noddraw=true

And I use the same arguments as the value of the java_arguments param and the console still only reports 90meg being allocated. Which on my machine would be the default memory allocation for any applet. And if I only use the JVM arguments in the control panel or if I only use the java_arguments param, I still only get 90meg.

rogyeu
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Joined: 2006-07-30
Points: 0

Just a reminder, the survey will close on Monday. We are reviewing the comments now. Make sure to submit your comments if you haven't already.

Thanks,
Roger Y.

demonduck
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Joined: 2008-03-14
Points: 0

You are considering 6u10_b28 as a release candidate -- to coin a phrase, "...you can't be serious..."

There are so many things wrong with 1.6u10 that I'm amazed that you would even consider it a release candidate.

1) The Kernel Installer barely works. You have to restart your browser 3 or 4 times depending on what you are installing.

2) 6u10 erases the JVM arguments in C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Application Data\Sun\Java\Deployment so that if the user tries to start an applet with substantial memory requirements, the applet fails with an OutOfMemoryError. And the user cannot set JVM arguments to allow more memory for the JVM because 6u10 erases the JVM arguments.

3) 6u10 is supposed to support the java_arguments applet param but it doesn't work. Try the apple below. It loads two 3.6 meg jpg images and shows them side by side as a stereo viewer.

http://pancyl.com/stereos.htm

The applet tag has:

It will not load in FF2 or IE6 if 6u10_b28 is the active plugin because it suffers an OutOfMemoryError.

If I uninstall 6u10 and activate 6u7 and set the same JVM arguments in the Java Control Panel -- then the applet will run in both FF2 and IE6. And if I set the arguments in the Java Control Panel and activate (install) 6u10, those arguments are erased.

So you have the situation where the JVM arguments in the applet tag are ignored or don't work and you can't set the JVM arguments in the Java Control Panel.

THIS IS WORSE THAN 6u7 or any previous version. And I've told you this same thing before and you don't listen. Try it yourself --

http://pancyl.com/stereos.htm

4) Graphics performance has been getting progressively worse in the 1.6 releases. 1.5 is faster and each successive release of 1.6 is slower. Again try it yourself. Run the applet below in 1.5 and 1.6. It's faster in 1.5 and slower in 1.6

http://pancyl.com/VSync.htm

And all these problems are demonstrated with a very simple applet that ONLY uses AWT and Java2D. I can't imagine the problems that exist with a Swing or JAI applet.

And your Deployment Toolkit is an absolute joke....

Now I can't really classify these problems as bugs since they are clearly design flaws. And they are worse than design flaws -- they are engineering failures.

And what's even worse is that you don't listen...

trembovetski
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Joined: 2003-12-31
Points: 0

> 4) Graphics performance has been getting progressively worse in the 1.6 releases. 1.5 is faster and each successive release of 1.6 is slower. Again try it yourself. Run the applet below in 1.5 and 1.6. It's faster in 1.5 and slower in 1.6

Right. And I can come up with 100 apps which are faster on 6u10 than on any previous release.

> I can't imagine the problems that exist with a Swing or JAI applet.

Why don't you try it.

Dmitri

demonduck
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Joined: 2008-03-14
Points: 0

> > 4) Graphics performance has been getting
> progressively worse in the 1.6 releases. 1.5 is
> faster and each successive release of 1.6 is slower.
> Again try it yourself. Run the applet below in 1.5
> and 1.6. It's faster in 1.5 and slower in 1.6
>
> Right. And I can come up with 100 apps which are
> faster on 6u10 than on any previous release.
>
> > I can't imagine the problems that exist with a
> Swing or JAI applet.
>
> Why don't you try it.
>
> Dmitri

I'm happy to be wrong. I want Java Graphics to be blazing fast. If I'm wrong in my analysis I would be overjoyed. I'm basing my judgment on what I have seen.

Please list the applets that are faster and I'll look at them. Provided that they don't use hardware acceleration which is disabled for my OS (Win2K).

icewalker2g
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Joined: 2004-03-26
Points: 0

> Please list the applets that are faster and I'll look
> at them. Provided that they don't use hardware
> acceleration which is disabled for my OS (Win2K).
There
is a little thing called system requirements. I'm not against using Win2k but certain advancements with respect to changes in current technology and if your system (or in this case OS) is not up to the task, dont blame the VM

demonduck
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Joined: 2008-03-14
Points: 0

> > Please list the applets that are faster and I'll
> look
> > at them. Provided that they don't use hardware
> > acceleration which is disabled for my OS (Win2K).
> There
> is a little thing called system requirements. I'm not
> against using Win2k but certain advancements with
> respect to changes in current technology and if your
> system (or in this case OS) is not up to the task,
> dont blame the VM

Still don't see any applets...

demonduck
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Joined: 2008-03-14
Points: 0

Also -- the stereo applet compiled with 1.5 is about 22kb. When I compile it with 1.6, it grows about 2kb. What's that about? Almost 10% increase in size.

os2baba
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Joined: 2004-05-19
Points: 0

Since there are many fixed in the last couple of builds, why isn't build 28 on the main download page http://java.sun.com/javase/downloads/ea.jsp ? Do some builds have more extensive testing? What build should our customers use? The build on the main page or the latest one?