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Feasibility of implementing JavaFX (vs Flash/Ajax): Discussion

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asdf_asdf
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Joined: 2008-07-03

Hello everyone!

We are planning to add some interactive elements to the website. These should connect to the server (per RMI?) independently and display current events in real time. That should all be pretty in terms of usability and speed and user experience, since the target group are average internet users with no interest for the underlining technology. The critical element therefore is best user experience.

As JavaFX has appeared on the Java scene, it seemed that could be the best solution, since the existing architecture is all-java and the team of developers at ease with java as with any other programming environment.

However, at its current stage JavaFX seems as visually unattractive as its applets and much slower than Flash and difficult to embed seemingly onto websites.

Is it only my perception, or could JavaFX look as nicely as Flash counterparts (Ajax in some case possibly) without requiring a significant effort (such as hard-coding nice custom elements), be nearly as fast, and allowing easy being plugged in into HTML without popup webstart annoyances and long download time?

What are your opinions on the subject? Do you have successful/painful experiences with integrating real JavaFX projects?

Thank you!

Message was edited by: asdf_asdf

Message was edited by: asdf_asdf

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asdf_asdf
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Joined: 2008-07-03

plz see my last post lower in the thread instead

Message was edited by: asdf_asdf

cowwoc
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Joined: 2003-08-24

It remains to be seen whether Sun understands that any Flash competitor needs to ship with a rich development environment versus a nice looking script. Java is missing what Microsoft and Adobe have provided from day one: extremely rich visual editors.

The Netbeans form editor is great, but it doesn't compare to the Microsoft/Adobe offering. I'd argue that we don't really need something like JavaFX as much as we need a richer IDE. We probably need both, but the graphical editor is more important than the underlying code.

That being said, I would say my biggest objection to JavaFX is having to learn yet another (scripting) language. Aren't we all tired of the "yet another framework" Java syndrome? What makes this framework any better than what's already out there (including alternatives to Java)?

ilyaromanenko
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Joined: 2008-04-08

What about plugin for Adobe Photoshop? :)

asdf_asdf
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Joined: 2008-07-03

Thank you all for the input! Judging from the number of views that could become a useful thread for those interested in the technology :) Please keep sharing your javafx experiences!

Some more points:

The javafx demo apps listed on http://jfx.wikia.com/wiki/Demos are just excellent.

* It is interesting though: a) how much effort is currently needed - considering the state of IDE support and scarcity of documentation - for an average developer to produce these, and b) since to a layman they look nothing like standard java swing/applets, is javafx ACTUALLY providing some special gui features that allow creation of such beauty? (ie effects and nice look-and-feel is exclusive to javafx and cannot be effectively reproduced in java swing/applets)

* And also, is a simple way to embed javafx into HTML envisioned in the near future (!)? ...without annoyance of webstart and having to press "run" to allow an application to be actually executed? Needless to say it is extremely critical in terms of technology's eventual success.

* Are there approximate deadlines to the maturity of technology? When could one start implementing it in the enterprise?

many,many thanks

Message was edited by: asdf_asdf

Message was edited by: asdf_asdf

vorgi
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Joined: 2003-08-17

Hi,

i am watching JavaFX and JRE1.6-10 for quite a while. Since the JavaFX SDK is still not out, I can only make assumptions.

* JavaFX will be fast and good looking. I had a deep look under the hood by playing with Scenegraph. Scenegraph is hardware accellerated and fast as hell. A very nice looking Scenegraph demo is: http://weblogs.java.net/blog/campbell/archive/2008/02/effectuation_th.html
* JavaFX is compiled bytecode, that outruns Actionscript with factors 4-5 at least.
* The download via Webstart is just a temporary workaround. Most of the time 90% of the download time is for the jfx-Runtime itself that should be included in the final Consumer 1.6 JRE.
* Nimbus looks pretty cool and it is customizable. So instead of having to write your own set of Custom Controls like in flash (just try using a mousewheel on some flex sites), you have a mature set of Controls that you can color and shape at your own will.

The disadvantage is that the JavaFX SDK is still not out there and with all the refactoring going on, i would wait a few weeks before diggin' into creating a JavaFX project. At the moment the main bloggers (Chris Oliver, Joshua Marinacci etc.) are pretty quiet. They are either on holiday or working on the SDK preview like crazy. Let's hope for the latter.

asdf_asdf
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Joined: 2008-07-03

@vorgi: thanks!

Here are some more questions I have came up with:

When should one expect seeing the final JavaFX SDK coming out?

I have read an article claiming the contrary, ie that JavaFX is about 5 times slower than flash (http://metalinkltd.com/?p=139).

Will there be an elegant support to embedd JavaFX into HTML (certainly without the anti-user webstart-dialog popping up and asking first for a permission to download the code and then for granting appropriate rights to the code)?

Very desired: all sorts of opinions =)

lowecg
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Joined: 2004-12-20

that version of the bubble mark was based on an early, interpreted version of JFX. Check out the compiled JFX version of bubble mark:

http://blogs.sun.com/chrisoliver/entry/compiled_javafx_script

On my Vista laptop I get 200 fps and it uses hardly any CPU (<1%).

I believe XP has the FPS limited in some cases to 60 FPS.

joshy
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Joined: 2003-07-02

We are indeed working like mad on the SDK. Expect the first preview release at the end of this month. I'll be posting a great deal about the cool stuff in it on my blog, so stay tuned.

http://weblogs.java.net/blog/joshy/

carcour
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Joined: 2003-06-18

I wish you guys good luck in releasing the first preview of the SDK. I just wish that the the Java icon is removed from the tray http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6694710

We're waiting for good tooling support and hopefully we will create kick-ass JavaFX apps that will compete with Flash and bring RIAs to a new level. The only problem is that the new plugin is still slower than Flash and that's the downside, it still locks the page for a few seconds (Firefox 3.0 Java 6 Update 10 b27). We can still tell it's an applet and unless this is fixed JavaFX applets will not succeed.