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6u10-b27 Flashing green border with dialogs

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jasonl
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With b27 of 6u10, all modal dialogs (have not tested modeless) now have a flashing green border around them with an exclamation icon at the top right....very annoying. Anyway to get rid of this ?

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mrhandy1
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Joined: 2008-09-11
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Don't know about builds and so forth, I'm a user not a developer. I do know that I take seizure medicine and flashing things aggravate epilepsy. The java windows on my laptop flash five times before stopping and they do it every time I change windows. I play a lot of pogo games in pop up windows and also same on yahoo. The flashing is bothering me a great deal. I just tried to update my java but sun's system tells me I have the newest version. What's up with that? Please respond to mkovach1031@verizon.net. I really need to stop this flashing.

mbien
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Joined: 2007-04-29
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Hi mrhandy1,

I think there is an option in the "Java Control Panel" advanced section to disable the applet warnings.

Search for "sandbox warning sign" or something like that in the securety category, uncheck it and press apply.

Power users are able to recognize Java apps even without flashy borders anyway ;-)

anthony_p
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Joined: 2006-07-24
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Hi Ian,

We're going to partially address the issue with the flashing border right in the 6u10 release. Build 29 will reduce the period of flashing to less than a second, hopefully making the border less intrusive. We'll see what other improvements we can do in the next update release. And again, thank you very much for your feedback!

--
best regards,
Anthony

macintyrei
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Joined: 2008-03-26
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Hi Anthony,

I've just tried b31 and it looks much better - thanks for listening and including this.

Ian

kbr
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Joined: 2003-06-16
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The dragged-out applet not completely covering the screen when maximized is intentional; this restriction was put in place in 6718934, to avoid having the default close icon for these applets go outside the screen. We might be able to change this behavior in the next update release if it doesn't impact security. There are more UI cleanups that need to be done for dragged-out applets going forward. Please feel free to file a bug with a test case.

mbien
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> The dragged-out applet not completely covering the
> screen when maximized is intentional; this
> restriction was put in place in 6718934, to avoid
> having the default close icon for these applets go
> outside the screen.
I know,

but in my case I use a fully decorated frame for a signed draggable applet without the "special" close button because this would be redundant.

IMO there should be no gap when there is no special close button or warning sign (you can't change it at runetime anyway, right?).
Signed applets which don't declare to use the special close button schould be fullly maximizeable (except for the start panel of course)

I will file a bug and post the id here for reference today or tomorrow.

[edit]
[I haven't tested it but I hope no icons are painted when applet requested fullscrean exclusive mode ;)]

mbien
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btw. same applet is maximizeable on ubuntu without the gap.

trembovetski
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Joined: 2003-12-31
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I believe the "new warning window experience" is windows only.

Dmitri

Edit: hm. that is only relevant for "normal" applet windows, not the dragged out ones - the dragging out I believe works on all platforms.

Message was edited by: trembovetski

anthony_p
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Joined: 2006-07-24
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To be more specific, the applet warning appears on any top-level window created by an unsigned application, be it an applet, or, say, a Java Web Start application. You can even simulate running a normal application in a restricted environment by providing the

-Djava.security.manager

command-line switch to the java command.

Reverting the "old" warning is impossible. The new implementation is a feature of the 6u10 release and cannot be "undone". If your users find the warning distracting, the only solution is to sign your applet.

Dmitri is correct saying below that the flashy border only appears upon activating the window. While the user works with one application window, (s)he will not see anything else but the triangle warning icon in the top-right corner of the window.

golovnin
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Joined: 2003-06-11
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It flashes also when you click on the icon.

BTW the icon overlays partially the close button of a maximized window which may prevent user from closing the window. Maybe it would be better to place the icon on the left side (right side for RTL component orientation) of min/max/close buttons.

- Andrej

PS: The icon looks a little bit ugly on my WinXP with 120dpi.

macintyrei
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Our (unsigned) applets use a lot of modal dialogs. The general consensus within our company (and our customers that have seen it) is that the new look is terrible. The warning icon next to the close symbol is fine, but the flashing green border really detracts from the look of the application - it looks like some VB for MSDOS application.

It even happens on popup menus where the bounds of the menu are slightly outside the browser.

Hopefully it can get toned down before the final release.

Ian

anthony_p
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Joined: 2006-07-24
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Hi Ian,

We understnad your concerns. We're currently actively working on this issue. We hope to fix the usability of the new security warning in the next update release after 6u10 (we're unable to deliver the fix in 6u10 as it's in the RC state already). As a temporary workaround you can sign your applet for the time being. We're sorry for the inconveniences.

Regarding the popup menus having the border: are you using any custom popup menus? Swing popup menus that go beyond the applet bounds do not display the border (nor the warning icon).

--
best regards,
Anthony

macintyrei
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Joined: 2008-03-26
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Hi Anthony, thanks for the reply - I look forward to the seeing the improvments.

With regards to the popup menu - we are just using standard swing popup menus. Our applet is designed to fill the browser completely (width, height 100%) and we notice the issue if a user right clicks near the edge of the browser, so that the rendered menu overlaps the edge of the applet.

Regards,
Ian

Test html page
[code]







[/code]

Source code for test applet

[code]
import java.awt.event.MouseAdapter;
import java.awt.event.MouseEvent;

import javax.swing.JApplet;
import javax.swing.JPanel;
import javax.swing.JPopupMenu;
import javax.swing.SwingUtilities;
import javax.swing.UIManager;

public class TestPopupMenu extends JApplet {

public void init() {
SwingUtilities.invokeLater(new Runnable() {
public void run() {
try {
UIManager.setLookAndFeel(UIManager.getSystemLookAndFeelClassName());
} catch (Exception e) {
}

final JPanel panel = new JPanel();
setContentPane(panel);

final JPopupMenu popupMenu = new JPopupMenu();
popupMenu.add("test1");
popupMenu.add("test2");
popupMenu.add("test3");

panel.addMouseListener(new MouseAdapter() {
public void mousePressed(MouseEvent e) {
doPopup(e);
}
public void mouseReleased(MouseEvent e) {
doPopup(e);
}
void doPopup(MouseEvent e) {
if (e.isPopupTrigger()) {
popupMenu.show(panel, e.getX(), e.getY());
}
}
});
}
});
super.init();
}
}
[/code]

anthony_p
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Joined: 2006-07-24
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We're probably going to partially address the issue with the annoyance of the border in 6u10 by reducing the time of flashing to lees than one second. This should be less distracting than before.

Concerning the popup menus, we're investigating this issue now.

Thanks for you feedback!

cowwoc
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Joined: 2003-08-24
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First of all, I love the idea. I think it looks a lot slicker than the old interface. That being said I have the following problems with it:

1) It isn't obvious what Java is warning me about :) Hover the mouse over the exclamation mark should bring up a tooltip or something that describes the warning.

2) If I run an unsigned Webstart, the JFrame comes up and then you try to make the contents of the frame flash but it almost isn't visible at all. It looks like you're flashing outside the bounds of the frame.

In the case a full JFrame comes up I would suggest making the actual frame flash, not its contents.

Gili

trembovetski
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Joined: 2003-12-31
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1) - it does have a tooltip
2) - not sure what you mean. The "normal" opaque frames should only have flashing border, not the contents, and only when they get focus. If some other frame takes focus, the flashing on the first one stops.

cowwoc
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1) "Java Application Window" doesn't tell anyone anything. As an end-user I'd be asking myself "why is someone warning me that I am running Java? What is wrong with running Java?"... A more suitable message might be "Warning: the Java Application is Unsigned" because then the warning is focused on "unsigned" not "java".

BTW: What *are* you trying to warn the user about? If the applet or application is unsigned why should the user be warned at all? If the sandbox is safe they should have nothing to worry about... This is beginning to sound like a usability gaffe to me. Does Flash warn users when they run unsigned code? Does the browser warn users when it renders JPG files (that have known vulnerabilities)? No. Unless I'm missing something here I would say this warning should be removed altogether.

2) Try running http://bbs.darktech.org/ceati/launch.jnlp .. notice how the contents of the JFrame are highlighted on startup (this is hard to see but if you look closely you'll notice it).

trembovetski
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1) this is no worse than it used to be. If your point that what used to be isn't that great I agree.

The reason for the warning is to warn the user that this window is untrusted. It is to prevent spoofing - applets that pretend to be something else, grab input, stuff like that. You go to a page, they open a window the size of the screen that looks just like ebay.com login page, and steal your stuff. If we were to remove it our security folks would have heart attacks.

2) I don't see it. I see the border being highlighted (annoyingly), but not the contents. They won't be, unless your frame is non-opaque. Also, if it's "hard to see", then arguably it doesn't matter =)

Dmitri

cowwoc
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Joined: 2003-08-24
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> 1) this is no worse than it used to be. If your point
> that what used to be isn't that great I agree.
>
> The reason for the warning is to warn the user that
> this window is untrusted. It is to prevent spoofing -
> applets that pretend to be something else, grab
> input, stuff like that. You go to a page, they open a
> window the size of the screen that looks just like
> ebay.com login page, and steal your stuff. If we were
> to remove it our security folks would have heart
> attacks.

How is this different from visiting a plain-HTML phishing site? Furthermore, if ebay.com becomes an applet one day, how would it help someone differentiate whether they're really on ebay's applet or a phishing one? The premise of this warning seems to be that Java applets should be untrusted as they are not "the real thing" or put another way "no one would use this for anything mission-critical". On a very practical level, does this warning actually help end-users at all? It's pretty clear to me it harms Java's image but I'm not convinced it helps anyone.

> 2) I don't see it. I see the border being highlighted
> (annoyingly), but not the contents. They won't be,
> unless your frame is non-opaque. Also, if it's "hard
> to see", then arguably it doesn't matter =)

The flashing is visible (and annoying), just not the full width of the flashing border (about half the border shows up). The part that is flashing is immediately inside the frame "decoration". The flashing is visible on the left and right sides of the window, but not at the top and bottom. I am also running Windows Vista 64-bit which might make a difference in the way the window renders, so you might want to try reproducing the problem under that platform.

trembovetski
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If ebay wanted to do an applet, they'd do a signed applet, so they won't have any issues with the warning.

I guess it's different from the normal html phishing because the latter is taken care of by the browser nowadays?
But I'm not a security expert so I wouldn't really know.

I do agree that at least the tooltip needs to change and I sent email to UE folks asking for suggestions on improvement.

2) yeah, I tried on XP, so there may be something different there. I know Anthony is working on special Vista support so may be it will be addressed by his fix (but not for 6u10).

Dmitri

anthony_p
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Hi cowwoc,

This is a known issue that on Vista-Aero the flashy border is misplaced. The fix is planned for the next update release after 6u10.

--
best regards,
Anthony

cowwoc
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Yay, so I'm not crazy after all ;) Gotta love those OS-specific bugs.

Thanks for the head's up!

PS: Will Sun continue releasing weekly builds between update releases?

Gili

rogerl
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Joined: 2004-11-15
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jasonl,

Are you able to sign your applet?

-RogerL

jasonl
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Yes I can sign my applets, but having to do so just to avoid these flashing dialogs is not the ideal solution. I agree with the subsequent post regarding the look of these dialogs now. The flashing window draws your focus away from what your dialog is intended to be for, and you are initally watching this flashing window for a few seconds. If you have several dialogs in your applet it really is an annoyance.

trembovetski
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It's supposed to be only for applets' windows - a new implementation of "applet warning window". I don't see it with application's windows (modal or otherwise).

Dmitri

jasonl
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Yes, I am referring to applets' windows. Is there a way to revert to the "old" warning (or not have it displayed at all if the applet is signed, which ours is). This "flashing" of the warning will be very obtrusive to our users who rely on these applet windows for user input.

trembovetski
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Unfortunately I don't believe there's any way to get back to old behavior.

The window flashes only a few times when it gains focus to let the user know that they work with untrusted window.
To my liking the icon looks better than the old "warning"
window, and is similar to what Apple's applet warning looks like.

It was my understanding that signed applets shouldn't display the warning, may be it's a bug. Was the applet warning displayed with your signed applet before?

Dmitri

Message was edited by: trembovetski

mbien
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Joined: 2007-04-29
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in my case (draggable signed applet) the warning does not appear (like expected) but when I maximize the window there is still a gap on the right side for the not rendered warning icon what makes it look a little bit broken. winxp, update10 b27

here is my applet
https://fishfarm.dev.java.net/demo/

just wait until the progressbar stops working, drag and maximize (I know the applet has repaint issues ;) )

sorry, no time to dig into it further or file a complete bug report (exams)

but I suspect the gap is ether caused because of
1. the not rendered applet warning sign
2. or the not rendered additional close button (special draggable applet feature used for undecorated applets)

anyone tried to maximize windows created from signed applets?

[edit]
here is the bug report:
http://bugs.sun.com/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6729391

trembovetski
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Thanks for the report, I'll forward it to the engineer who worked on that feature.

Dmitri