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Qunhuan Mei

Hi Shai,

I have done more experiments with adding two standard lists to a standard form.

If the two lists are short and no scrollbar needed then the focus change behaviour seems ideal, just as you described.
However, when one is short and another is long, then a scrollbar will be attached to the long one and display of focused item is sometimes problematic, see the screen copy below:

[cid:image001.png@01C8DD14.E2E2ADD0]The focused item (on second list) is not displayed correctly and if focus goes further down, no focused item will be displayed.

If both lists are long and then two scrollbars maybe involved. The focus on the second list appears to be problematic:

[cid:image002.png@01C8DD14.E2E2ADD0]The current focus on the second list is not displayed.

I would suggest the design for multi list or multi component form be SINGLE scrollbar based. So that we could add lists, labels etc, to compose the form/page, making it look like a Wap/XHTML page with a single applicable scrollbar but possibly better user experience.

Making sense?

Many thanks,

Qunhuan

[att1.html]
[image001.png]
[image002.png]

Shai Almog

Hi Qunhuan,
You determine whether the UI will use a single scrollbar or not:
Form f = new Form("Lists");
f.setLayout(new BoxLayout(BoxLayout.Y_AXIS));
List a = new List(new Object[] {"Item 1", "Item 2",
"Item 3", "Item 4", "Item 5", "Item 6"});
f.addComponent(a);
List b = new List(new Object[] {"Item A", "Item B",
"Item C", "Item D", "Item F", "Item E"});
f.addComponent(b);
f.addComponent(new Button("Button A"));
f.addComponent(new Button("Button B"));
f.addCommand(new Command("Menu A"));
f.addCommand(new Command("Menu B"));
f.show();


Notice I didn't call form.setScrollable(false).

Thanks,
Shai.

>
> Hi Shai,
>
>
> I have done more experiments with adding two standard lists to a
> standard form.
>
> If the two lists are short and no scrollbar needed then the focus
> change behaviour seems ideal, just as you described.
> However, when one is short and another is long, then a scrollbar
> will be attached to the long one and display of focused item is
> sometimes problematic, see the screen copy below:
>
> The focused item (on second list) is not displayed
> correctly and if focus goes further down, no focused item will be
> displayed.
>
> If both lists are long and then two scrollbars maybe involved. The
> focus on the second list appears to be problematic:
>
> The current focus on the second list is not displayed.
>
>
> I would suggest the design for multi list or multi component form
> be SINGLE scrollbar based. So that we could add lists, labels etc,
> to compose the form/page, making it look like a Wap/XHTML page with
> a single applicable scrollbar but possibly better user experience.
>
>
> Making sense?
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
> Qunhuan
>

[att1.html]
[Picture 34.png]

Qunhuan Mei

Hi again Shai,

I have experimented with the code you provided. While there is indeed one single scrollbar in use, seems to me the traversing behaviour sometimes appears to be not intuitive or not natural to user (e.g. from the bottom item of 2nd list jumps to the bottom item of 1st list, rather than to the first item of the 1st list). Also leaving the focus visible on the first list while the actual focus is already on the second list would also be confusing to the user. I would suggest a redesign of the handling of traversing on a form with multiple components.

I suppose the ideal behaviour would require the traversing to be continuous (no "jumping") across the list items (i.e. no jumping, even though the jumping is "logical"). Also there should always be only one focus on the form. Seems to me once various components are added to the form, their specific identity is better to be lost, i.e. if two list added to the form, separated by a label, all list items, as well as that label, should be treated as if they come from a single list. This would appear more natural to the user.

The natural and intuitive traversing behaviour seems to me is quite vital.

What do you think?

Qunhuan

From: Shai.Almog@Sun.COM [mailto:Shai.Almog@Sun.COM]
Sent: 03 July 2008 14:19
To: users@lwuit.dev.java.net
Subject: Re: temp

Hi Qunhuan,
You determine whether the UI will use a single scrollbar or not:
Form f = new Form("Lists");
f.setLayout(new BoxLayout(BoxLayout.Y_AXIS));
List a = new List(new Object[] {"Item 1", "Item 2", "Item 3", "Item 4", "Item 5", "Item 6"});
f.addComponent(a);
List b = new List(new Object[] {"Item A", "Item B", "Item C", "Item D", "Item F", "Item E"});
f.addComponent(b);
f.addComponent(new Button("Button A"));
f.addComponent(new Button("Button B"));
f.addCommand(new Command("Menu A"));
f.addCommand(new Command("Menu B"));
f.show();
[cid:image001.png@01C8DD19.E6B0DA90]

Notice I didn't call form.setScrollable(false).

Thanks,
Shai.

Hi Shai,

I have done more experiments with adding two standard lists to a standard form.

If the two lists are short and no scrollbar needed then the focus change behaviour seems ideal, just as you described.
However, when one is short and another is long, then a scrollbar will be attached to the long one and display of focused item is sometimes problematic, see the screen copy below:

The focused item (on second list) is not displayed correctly and if focus goes further down, no focused item will be displayed.

If both lists are long and then two scrollbars maybe involved. The focus on the second list appears to be problematic:

The current focus on the second list is not displayed.

I would suggest the design for multi list or multi component form be SINGLE scrollbar based. So that we could add lists, labels etc, to compose the form/page, making it look like a Wap/XHTML page with a single applicable scrollbar but possibly better user experience.

Making sense?

Many thanks,

Qunhuan

[att1.html]
[image001.png]

Shai Almog

Hi Qunhuan,
> I have experimented with the code you provided. While there is
> indeed one single scrollbar in use, seems to me the traversing
> behaviour sometimes appears to be not intuitive or not natural to
> user (e.g. from the bottom item of 2nd list jumps to the bottom
> item of 1st list, rather than to the first item of the 1st list).
> Also leaving the focus visible on the first list while the actual
> focus is already on the second list would also be confusing to the
> user. I would suggest a redesign of the handling of traversing on a
> form with multiple components.

Selection is determined by the list and is not focus traversal but
rather selection. The list should not modify its selection in
relation to the rest of the form, this would not make sense for many/
most use cases e.g.: carousel list in the bottom of the screen with
selection of elements in the center of the screen.

If you want to reset selection to behave like focus you can do so
with a focus listener.

> I suppose the ideal behaviour would require the traversing to be
> continuous (no “jumping”) across the list items (i.e. no jumping,
> even though the jumping is “logical”). Also there should always be
> only one focus on the form. Seems to me once various components are
> added to the form, their specific identity is better to be lost,
> i.e. if two list added to the form, separated by a label, all list
> items, as well as that label, should be treated as if they come
> from a single list. This would appear more natural to the user.

You are mixing metaphors, the focus on the list is the yellow
rectangle around it while its selection is the bar within. You can
adapt the cell renderer to not draw selection when the list doesn't
have focus if you wish to have that behavior. We don't think it makes
sense since often you would want to do something like have a list of
items and a "remove" button bellow them, remove makes sense only when
there is a selection in the list but focus exists on the button.

>
> The natural and intuitive traversing behaviour seems to me is quite
> vital.

I think that your perception of natural/intuitive is based on your
applicative needs which are achievable with the current API, however
a generic framework needs to go beyond singular applicative needs. We
tried to copy the behavior of both leading cell phones and desktops
when designing these behaviors and thus gain from their experience in
the subject.

Thanks,
Shai.

>
> What do you think?
>
> Qunhuan
>
> From: Shai.Almog@Sun.COM [mailto:Shai.Almog@Sun.COM]
> Sent: 03 July 2008 14:19
> To: users@lwuit.dev.java.net
> Subject: Re: temp
>
> Hi Qunhuan,
> You determine whether the UI will use a single scrollbar or not:
> Form f = new Form("Lists");
> f.setLayout(new BoxLayout(BoxLayout.Y_AXIS));
> List a = new List(new Object[] {"Item 1", "Item 2",
> "Item 3", "Item 4", "Item 5", "Item 6"});
> f.addComponent(a);
> List b = new List(new Object[] {"Item A", "Item B",
> "Item C", "Item D", "Item F", "Item E"});
> f.addComponent(b);
> f.addComponent(new Button("Button A"));
> f.addComponent(new Button("Button B"));
> f.addCommand(new Command("Menu A"));
> f.addCommand(new Command("Menu B"));
> f.show();
>
>
> Notice I didn't call form.setScrollable(false).
>
> Thanks,
> Shai.
>
>
>
> Hi Shai,
>
>
> I have done more experiments with adding two standard lists to a
> standard form.
>
> If the two lists are short and no scrollbar needed then the focus
> change behaviour seems ideal, just as you described.
> However, when one is short and another is long, then a scrollbar
> will be attached to the long one and display of focused item is
> sometimes problematic, see the screen copy below:
>
> The focused item (on second list) is not displayed
> correctly and if focus goes further down, no focused item will be
> displayed.
>
> If both lists are long and then two scrollbars maybe involved. The
> focus on the second list appears to be problematic:
>
> The current focus on the second list is not displayed.
>
>
> I would suggest the design for multi list or multi component form
> be SINGLE scrollbar based. So that we could add lists, labels etc,
> to compose the form/page, making it look like a Wap/XHTML page with
> a single applicable scrollbar but possibly better user experience.
>
>
> Making sense?
>
>
> Many thanks,
>
>
> Qunhuan
>
>

[att1.html]