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How to "properly" translate the tutorials or portions of it

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lucasvieites
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Joined: 2005-05-27
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Hi,
I have been using the java tutorials for several years, as I occasionally do some programming in Java. Right now I have several co-workers who would benefit greatly of these documents but they are not fluent enough in English and I know there are many spanish speaking programmers in the same situation. Because of this I have translated some parts of the tutorials for internal use at my company, but always as a quick solution so they would not be asking me to explain a paragraph here and there all the time.
As I have been quite active as a volunteer translator for several opensource projects for some years I would like to go on and start translating parts of the tutorials the proper way; that is, using a (professional) translation tool (like the OLT - https://open-language-tools.dev.java.net/) that would allow us to publish the tutorials in the same formats as the originals.
For that purpose the texts should be available in some kind of "source" form other than HTML. Do you think this could be feasible?
Thanks in advance,
Lucas Vieites

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bassim
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Joined: 2007-07-13
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Hi,
I translated some time ago a part of Learning the Java Language course, and I want to share this with the French community.
you can take a look at the following address: http://it.dzfac.com/wiki/index.php?title=Chapitre_02_:_Apprendre_le_lang...

Now, I'd like to know how to make available my work for correction and validation
What is the procedure to follow ?

thanks

sfshaza
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Joined: 2004-06-03
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Hi Bassim,

That's great! That definitely looks like an excerpt from Learning the Java Language trail. Unfortunately, we don't have any way to correct or validate the text -- that has to come from the community at large.

Would you like to post it on our wiki? That would get lots of eyeballs on it.

Sharon

bassim
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Joined: 2007-07-13
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Thank you for the answer

> Would you like to post it on our wiki? That would
> get lots of eyeballs on it.

yes, pleased

but i don't know how to do this. must i only copy/paste the text ?

sfshaza
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Joined: 2004-06-03
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Hi Bassam!

If you look at the wiki page:
http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Projects/Javatutorials

You'll see that I included a link to your translated tutorial. However, anyone (who is a member of java.net) can post to the wiki. If you need some help, I'm happy to post the actual translation on the wiki, rather than just a link to it.

Sharon

sfshaza
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Joined: 2004-06-03
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Hi Lucas,

Yes!! We would love it if you could translate portions of the tutorial into Spanish and made it available through this site. In fact, if you look at our wiki page, you'll see we have a place to share any and all translations.

I don't know what you had in mind regarding "source form other than HTML". Can you elaborate?

Sharon

lucasvieites
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Joined: 2005-05-27
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Hi sfshaza (aka Sharon, I believe),

I have indeed seen the wiki page where sharing translations is encouraged. I think that's a great initiative.
What I mean by "source form other than html" is that, as an experienced translator (although with little professional experience, mostly collaborating with open-source projects), I know that html is usually a target format, being the source some other markup language such as Docbook SGML/XML, which is translated and then converted to the target; be it html, pdf, etc.
This way of working makes it easier to use translation tools that provide mechanisms to provide consistency (eg, TM - Translation Memories).
I really don't know how the tutorial writers create their content, but I have collaborated with Sun before translating parts of the StarOffice manuals and I was given chunks of SGML documents. This format is very "book-oriented" in ways that make it easy, for example, to write a chapter title only once, and refer to that title consistently throughout the entire text.
For example, in the tutorials, take the chapter named "Methods of the Matcher Class" (/essential/regex/matcher.html) and imagine that you come across that phrase several times in a different chapter, but referring to that chapter in particular. You could translate it as "The Matcher Class' methods" and not alter the meaning, but someone looking for that chapter in the index could be totally lost.
The names of the chapters are present in all the html files of the "trail", as part of the table of contents on the left. It could be easy to misspell a chapter name and render the translation inconsistent.
Also, translating the same string over and over again is very tedious and one of the reasons translators often give up ;-)

Maybe this post is a bitt more information than you were looking for but I hope it can bring some enlightenment.

Cheers,
Lucas

sfshaza
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Joined: 2004-06-03
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Hi Lucas!

Now I understand where you are coming from. :-)

Since the tutorial's inception more than 10 years ago, it has been written and maintained in a proprietary format called "mem4". The "mem4" format is, essentially, HTML with macros. The macros are used for things like cross-linking, image references, code blocks and so on. We run a perl script to convert the "mem4" files into html files. That is when the footer, header (with banner) and the table of contents on the left are added to each file, the "really big index" is generated, and so on.

At some point in the hopefully-not-too-distant-future, we will be moving to a new format for the tutorials. It has been a topic of much debate as to what format will be used and I don't yet know the answer to that question, though it will very possibly involve DITA. One of the biggest drawbacks of our current process is that we can't easily generate different output formats, like PDF. And, of course, if we do ever open source the tutorials, we need an open source friendly format.

It will definitely mean the end of "mem4", which has served its purpose.

Sharon

lucasvieites
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Joined: 2005-05-27
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Hi Sharon,

> Now I understand where you are coming from.
I was sure you would...

[...]
>And, of course, if we do ever open source the tutorials, we need an open source friendly format.
[...]

Now that sounds like music to my ears.
The way things are going (or at least seem to go) at Sun I hope that that time comes soon. When I first contacted Tim Foster (then the main developer of the "Sun Translation Editor", now known as the open source "Open Language Tools") I got a similar answer when I asked about the possibillity of opensourcing that tool. Almost a year later the OLT project was announced on https://open-language-tools.dev.java.net/. Let's just hope for the best ("Open Java Tutorials" would be a great by-product of "Open JDK" ;-)).
You can count on me for anything you need.

By the way, if I upload translations to the wiki, would these be automatically under the same "Java Tutorials Limited Non-Commercial License" as the original tutorials are?

Thanks,
Lucas

sfshaza
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Joined: 2004-06-03
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Hi Lucas,

Regarding your question:
"By the way, if I upload translations to the wiki, would these be automatically under the same "Java Tutorials Limited Non-Commercial License" as the original tutorials are?"

Submissions to this website are covered under these terms of use (linked to from our community portal home page):
http://java.net/terms.csp

According to section 4b, posted source code is covered under the Apache License (see included link) if there is no license for a particular project (which is true in our case). Section 4c indicates that submissions (other than source code) can be used by us to make derivative works but that you retain intellectual rights to the original.

Please note that I am [i]not[/i] a lawyer and that this is my interpretation of the text (and it's only my opinion). If you still have questions, you should check with a lawyer.

Thanks for asking. :-)

Sharon