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Is Scenario ready to use?

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willismorse
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Joined: 2004-01-30
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We have a shipping app that make heavy use of Piccolo. The deadness of that project is starting to cause us problems, and so we're looking for a replacement.

How stable is Scenario? Have the big design decisions been made, or do you think there are still big redesigns and changes still to come?

We can tolerate some API thrash, but we don't want to jump onboard too early.

Thanks,
Willis Morse

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Chris Campbell

Most of the big design decisions have been made, but I expect some
amount of API churn between now and the 1.0 release, whenever that may
be (I have absolutely no estimate on dates). That said, I don't think
there will be any major redesigns coming that will significantly affect
the way you interact with Scenario. The changes are more likely to be
things like package/class/method renaming and some minor API
removals/additions here and there. So if you're handy with a decent
refactoring tool, it's nothing insurmountable.

If you start evaluating Scenario now, follow the dev and commits mailing
lists, and keep up with any API changes as you go along (instead of
waiting indefinitely for 1.0 to come along), that might be your best
bet. And we would certainly appreciate any feedback you could provide
as we work to stabilize the APIs.

Sorry for the vague answer, but that's the best I've got at the moment.

Thanks,
Chris

scenario@javadesktop.org wrote:
> We have a shipping app that make heavy use of Piccolo. The deadness of that project is starting to cause us problems, and so we're looking for a replacement.
>
> How stable is Scenario? Have the big design decisions been made, or do you think there are still big redesigns and changes still to come?
>
> We can tolerate some API thrash, but we don't want to jump onboard too early.
>
> Thanks,
> Willis Morse
> [Message sent by forum member 'willismorse' (willismorse)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=275223
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@scenegraph.dev.java.net
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willismorse
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Joined: 2004-01-30
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That's cool, Chris. I can live with that answer.

What I didn't want to hear was something like "Well, we still have to figure out how we're going to integrate a layout system into render and validation loops" kinda thing. (which, BTW, is a huge problem with Piccolo)

We'll try to give it a shot.

Chris Campbell

Well, in the interest of full disclosure, adding first-class support for
layout has been discussed and is something that will likely be
implemented in Scenario in the near future. But don't let this scare
you off; it shouldn't impact the way that you interact with the Scenario
API, nor will it destabilize the implementation. (Instability is not an
option for us at this point, obviously.)

Thanks,
Chris

scenario@javadesktop.org wrote:
> That's cool, Chris. I can live with that answer.
>
> What I didn't want to hear was something like "Well, we still have to figure out how we're going to integrate a layout system into render and validation loops" kinda thing. (which, BTW, is a huge problem with Piccolo)
>

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willismorse
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Joined: 2004-01-30
Points: 0

Ugh, I just noticed that Scenario is GPL'd.

Any chance of that changing in the near future? If not, I'm afraid I've got to g back to Piccolo.

And what's the licensing implication for JavaFX in general if it uses Scenario under the hood?

Willis Morse

Francesco Bellomi

I agree... GPL is a big problem.
Sun should choose a more business-friendly license.

Francesco

On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 7:21 PM, wrote:

> Ugh, I just noticed that Scenario is GPL'd.
>
> Any chance of that changing in the near future? If not, I'm afraid I've got
> to g back to Piccolo.
>
> And what's the licensing implication for JavaFX in general if it uses
> Scenario under the hood?
>
> Willis Morse
> [Message sent by forum member 'willismorse' (willismorse)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=275263
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@scenegraph.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@scenegraph.dev.java.net
>
>

--
Francesco Bellomi
"Use truth to show illusion
and illusion to show truth."
[att1.html]

Christopher Oliver

It should be GPL+ClassPath exception - afaik - meaning it has the same
usage restriction as the JRE itself.

Chris

On May 19, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Francesco Bellomi wrote:

> I agree... GPL is a big problem.
> Sun should choose a more business-friendly license.
>
> Francesco
>
> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 7:21 PM, wrote:
> Ugh, I just noticed that Scenario is GPL'd.
>
> Any chance of that changing in the near future? If not, I'm afraid
> I've got to g back to Piccolo.
>
> And what's the licensing implication for JavaFX in general if it
> uses Scenario under the hood?
>
> Willis Morse
> [Message sent by forum member 'willismorse' (willismorse)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=275263
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@scenegraph.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@scenegraph.dev.java.net
>
>
>
>
> --
> Francesco Bellomi
> "Use truth to show illusion
> and illusion to show truth."
>

[att1.html]

Chris Campbell

To be clear:

We all wish it was GPL+CP, but it currently is GPL only (no classpath
exception).

We have listened to the licensing feedback received so far to date on
this mailing list and have made management aware that the current
licensing terms are problematic for many of you. We will of course
notify this list when any changes are made to the licensing model.

Chris

Christopher Oliver wrote:
> It should be GPL+ClassPath exception - afaik - meaning it has the same
> usage restriction as the JRE itself.
>
> Chris
>
> On May 19, 2008, at 12:12 PM, Francesco Bellomi wrote:
>
>> I agree... GPL is a big problem.
>> Sun should choose a more business-friendly license.
>>
>> Francesco
>>
>> On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 7:21 PM, >> > wrote:
>>
>> Ugh, I just noticed that Scenario is GPL'd.
>>
>> Any chance of that changing in the near future? If not, I'm afraid
>> I've got to g back to Piccolo.
>>
>> And what's the licensing implication for JavaFX in general if it
>> uses Scenario under the hood?
>>
>> Willis Morse
>> [Message sent by forum member 'willismorse' (willismorse)]
>>
>> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=275263
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@scenegraph.dev.java.net
>>
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@scenegraph.dev.java.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Francesco Bellomi
>> "Use truth to show illusion
>> and illusion to show truth."
>>
>

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willismorse
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Joined: 2004-01-30
Points: 0

Thanks, Chris.

I googled around a bit and found a lot more discussion about the licensing issues, so I guess I'm coming late to the party and beating a dead horse :-)

And back on topic, so there's no layout system in place already? Are the hooks in there yet?

I tried to fix the half-finished one in Piccolo, and it got very tricky. There's something wrong in there that causes it to go off into the recursive weeds every now and then.

platon007
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Joined: 2008-04-09
Points: 0

Hello. Working with Scene Graph, I didn't get any problems, unexplainable situation or something wrong with it. Without any afraid, I involved SG to some my projects, and don't have pity.

willismorse
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Joined: 2004-01-30
Points: 0

That's great to hear, thanks. I'm hoping we can use SG.