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Accessing JXTaskPane only using the keyboard

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sbusch
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Joined: 2004-10-05

I think the subject says it all. Isn't there some rule out there that says all controls should be accessible via the keyboard (I sorta kinda believe TAB should work)? There may be occasion where my application is used in an industrial environment where a mouse is hard to get to.

Thanks.

Steve

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Kleopatra

forgot:
> I added the link in 729.
>
>

thanks.

Jeanette

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Kleopatra

jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org schrieb:
>> Anyhow, that's the info which belongs into the bug report ;-) Be sure to add a link to tthis thread, anybody, so we don't loose it again.

there's still no link (in #729-swingx) to this discussion - just
curious: how will we find this info, once the bug is started?

Trying something else to collect binding information: started a wiki which is meant to collect suggested bindings (per-component, for all functions necessary) - feel free to add as you think appropriate. It will not be me who's filling the page

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Javadesktop/SwingXKeyBindings

Cheers
Jeanette

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sbusch
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Joined: 2004-10-05

I added the link in 729.

BTW, in the Wiki, you have "Space - suggested for Windows" for JXTaskPane. I'm not familiar enough w/ Wiki editing, but I want to make clear that what I suggested was that the keyboard behavior mimic JCheckBox's. The fact that it's space bar for Windows is secondary.

Steve

Kleopatra

jdnc-interest@javadesktop.org schrieb:
> I added the link in 729.
>
> BTW, in the Wiki, you have "Space - suggested for Windows" for JXTaskPane. I'm not familiar enough w/ Wiki editing, but I want to make clear that what I suggested was that the keyboard behavior mimic JCheckBox's. The fact that it's space bar for Windows is secondary.
>
>

lame excuse - it's not rocket science These are the only things you
need to know (I tend to forget, so keep a print out around my desk)

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/TWiki/TextFormattingRules

looking forward to your correction of my misunderstanding.

CU
Jeanette

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Kleopatra

hmichel,
> I already saw this issue last week, but had no time to fix it yet.
> Kleopatra, I am thinking to describe the "main" focus policy n the wiki page, there is any place I can do it on SwingX project?
>
not exactly sure what you are asking: the swingx wiki is free for all -
just open a page If you want some coding to do, the first entry
place is the jdnc-incubator project. It's home page has a description
(hopefully it's up-to-date) of what to do to get write access there

> And about a patch, I am thinking to implement it on a custom FocusTraversalPolicy for JXTaskPane. Do you think it is the better way to do it? I am trying to organize me to start it asap, maybe this week yet.
personally, I didn't think about it at all - it's not my construction
site ;-) FTPs are tricky to get right, so my gut would guide me to a
simpler way first (which I haven't thought about yet), but if that's the
way to go, so be it.

CU tomorrow
Jeanette

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Kleopatra

Steve,
> Since I'm the instigator, perhaps I should responded with woulda coulda shoulda. :) In all humility, my skill set is such that I don't know where to start in order to fix this. If you note the nature of my posts, I'm an "end user" rather than a SwingX developer. I see my role as as one willing to use work-in-progress SwingX on my (unsuspecting) customers and to see if the you-know-what hits the fan (or "this is cool"). If you don't thing my feedback is valuable, I'll stop.
>
>

You know that I'm aware you are an end-user - and a quite daring one to
bet on a moving target :-) And that I do appreciate your feedback.
> I see it like a checkbox. Use Tab/Ctrl-Tab to gain focus, and space bar to collapse/expand.
I assume that's how the OS of your choice does it? Anyhow, that's the
info which belongs into the bug report ;-) Be sure to add a link to this
thread, anybody, so we don't loose it again.

Thanks
Jeanette

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sbusch
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Joined: 2004-10-05

> Anyhow, that's the info which belongs into the bug report ;-) Be sure to add a link to t
this thread, anybody, so we don't loose it again.

hmichel filed a report (above). I don't think this rates another bug report, but perhaps it can be clarified.

> I assume that's how the OS of your choice does it?
Sorry, WinXP behavior for a checkbox - dunno how Linux/Mac/Solaris does it. Likewise, if a button is the current focus, hitting space bar is equivalent to a click.

> How is the standard FocusTraversalPolicy failing? If the contents are not visible the standard policy is to skip them. If it is not, then I doubt that we need a custom policy, we probably need a bug fix for visibility within the task pane.

I'm not having problem with this. And not belabor this, I'm strictly dealing with collapse/expand via the keyboard.

kschaefe
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Joined: 2006-06-08

> > How is the standard FocusTraversalPolicy failing?
> If the contents are not visible the standard policy
> is to skip them. If it is not, then I doubt that we
> need a custom policy, we probably need a bug fix for
> visibility within the task pane.
>
> I'm not having problem with this. And not belabor
> this, I'm strictly dealing with collapse/expand via
> the keyboard.
I'm aware this is your issue, but hmichel brought up the FTP issues and I was responding there.

I think that [url=https://swingx.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=607]607[/url] covers your main points regarding the keyboard navigation. Is that more robust than you were looking for? Just right? Any other comments for it?

Karl

sbusch
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Joined: 2004-10-05

Uh yeah (at the risk of being retentive, that request was for mnemonic rather than focus support. Nuff said).

Thanks a bunch.

Steve

Kleopatra

Steve,
> I think the subject says it all. Isn't there some rule out there that says all controls should be accessible via the keyboard

yeah, there are rules without end and so little time to follow them all

Please file an issue, so we get reminded - maybe with a little patch?

Cheers
Jeanette

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hmichel
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Joined: 2003-06-12

I filed a issue about it https://swingx.dev.java.net/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=729
I am having problems about focus policy on this component.

Regards.

sbusch
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Joined: 2004-10-05

Thank you - you said it better than I. You're right about focusing the components in the pane. I was more focusing (as it were) on the the fact that I can't expand/collapse the pane from the keyboard (and I have no idea how to patch this :().

kleopatra
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Joined: 2003-06-11

Three persons, hundreds (exaggerating, as always ;-) of shillering facets of an issue

a) "Isn't there some rule out there that says all controls should be accessible via the keyboard" - which I read as collapse/expand by keyboard as well as by mouse. 100% agreement, there should.

b) which I probably expressed a bit laxly "yeah, there are rules without end and so little time to follow them all" - hinting at the connotation, that offical resources (read: my time, mostly - core swing team including our project lead is occupied elsewhere - not only family wise like Richard with his little new one, again congrats! :) are limited.

c) another connotation is ... this is an open source project: it's not meant to solve every - arguably small - misbehaviour right from the start. The community _must_ contribute to make it work, stumbling across, talking about and filing an issue is just the beginning.

d) In regard to issues: the more information is attached (starting from a mere "doesn't work" over an an exact requirement analysis "should use TAB for open and Ctrl-Tab to close on windows", to a patch actually implementing a proposed fix complete with tests) the higher the probability of a quick commit is.

e) Sure, documentation is a must - if we know what the behavious is , linking back to d)

f) "when task pane is collapsed, it don't should delegate focus for components inside task pane" - if it does (and I don't doubt it), that's definitely a bug. But unrelated to the missing keyboard functionality which started this thread.

No offense meant, guys - just a little grumbling. No way a single developer _alone_ (not even me ) can drive and maintain a project like SwingX!

CU
Jeanette

sbusch
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Joined: 2004-10-05

> d) In regard to issues: the more information is attached (starting from a mere "doesn't work" over an an exact requirement analysis "should use TAB for open and Ctrl-Tab to close on windows", to a patch actually implementing a proposed fix complete with tests) the higher the probability of a quick commit is.

> No offense meant, guys - just a little grumbling. No way a single developer _alone_ (not even me ) can drive and maintain a project like SwingX!

Since I'm the instigator, perhaps I should responded with woulda coulda shoulda. :) In all humility, my skill set is such that I don't know where to start in order to fix this. If you note the nature of my posts, I'm an "end user" rather than a SwingX developer. I see my role as as one willing to use work-in-progress SwingX on my (unsuspecting) customers and to see if the you-know-what hits the fan (or "this is cool"). If you don't thing my feedback is valuable, I'll stop.

I see it like a checkbox. Use Tab/Ctrl-Tab to gain focus, and space bar to collapse/expand. If you can point me in the right direction (perhaps, by way of example), I'm glad to give it a shot.

hmichel
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Joined: 2003-06-12

I already saw this issue last week, but had no time to fix it yet.
Kleopatra, I am thinking to describe the "main" focus policy n the wiki page, there is any place I can do it on SwingX project?
And about a patch, I am thinking to implement it on a custom FocusTraversalPolicy for JXTaskPane. Do you think it is the better way to do it? I am trying to organize me to start it asap, maybe this week yet.
I files the issue w/o a patch just because I saw the thread here, and I don't wish forgot it too. ;)

Thanks for your amazing work and help...

kschaefe
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Joined: 2006-06-08

How is the standard FocusTraversalPolicy failing? If the contents are not visible the standard policy is to skip them. If it is not, then I doubt that we need a custom policy, we probably need a bug fix for visibility within the task pane.

Writing a custom focus traversal policy is almost never the correct answer. The default policy covers so many cases that if you think you need one, then it's probably a sign of a deeper bug.

Please feel free to reassign this bug to me. I'm fooling around (albeit slowly) in that area right now.

Karl

hmichel
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Joined: 2003-06-12

> How is the standard FocusTraversalPolicy failing? If
> the contents are not visible the standard policy is
> to skip them. If it is not, then I doubt that we
> need a custom policy, we probably need a bug fix for
> visibility within the task pane.

I agree with you. I don't study the problem as deeper as I wish and need, but I think the component are not "visible" (I mean painted) because the VerticalLayout take care about it, but I am sure that they are isVisible() == true and correctly instantiated. I have no time to debug and discover the real problem or if I misunderstand the problem... but it is what I understand about the problem until now.

>
> Writing a custom focus traversal policy is almost
> never the correct answer. The default policy covers
> so many cases that if you think you need one, then
> it's probably a sign of a deeper bug.
>
> Please feel free to reassign this bug to me. I'm
> fooling around (albeit slowly) in that area right
> now.

For me, no problem. Who can do it? So, feel free to ask about help if you need, and just tell me if you commit anything. :)

>
> Karl

Michel