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Manufacturer signing

10 replies [Last post]
Anonymous

Hi,

Does anyone know whether Samsung and Nokia have a
similar program to Motorola's Motodev where you can
have your JavaME application signed with a
manufacturer certificate? Any information is
appreciated.

Regards,

Randal Pinto

Technical Project Manager
Shazam Entertainment Ltd.
http://www.shazam.co.uk

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Padilla, Alex D

Does anyone know of any issues when programming with arrays in J2ME and
any possible solutions for this problem? I have had some problems
specifically with two-dimensional arrays.

Thank you all in advance.

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Robin Chaddock

Specifically, what sort of problems? =)

There are a number of old handsets that have horrible internal limits on
object size.
e.g.
You can't have an array larger than 64kb on early Siemens handsets.
Some handsets with native recompilers introduce other limits that can
impact upon array usage; old Panasonic handsets like the X60 suffer from
this.

Obviously there are also the obvious Java related overheads of using
multi-dimensional arrays that you might not expect if you were
unfamiliar with Java.

Padilla, Alex D wrote:
> Does anyone know of any issues when programming with arrays in J2ME and
> any possible solutions for this problem? I have had some problems
> specifically with two-dimensional arrays.
>
> Thank you all in advance.
>
> ===========================================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body
> of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send email to
> listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message "help".
>

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Padilla, Alex D

Thank you, Robin, for your reply. I am not using J2ME on a handset, so
that cannot be an issue. I am looking for problems with J2ME handling
arrays, specifically two-dimensional arrays. I am running a program
that is simply hanging when it tries to use a two-dimensional array in
J2ME. Does anyone know why this might be the case? Thanks again.

-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
[mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of Robin Chaddock
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2008 10:41 AM
To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject: Re: Array Issues with J2ME

Specifically, what sort of problems? =)

There are a number of old handsets that have horrible internal limits on
object size.
e.g.
You can't have an array larger than 64kb on early Siemens handsets.
Some handsets with native recompilers introduce other limits that can
impact upon array usage; old Panasonic handsets like the X60 suffer from
this.

Obviously there are also the obvious Java related overheads of using
multi-dimensional arrays that you might not expect if you were
unfamiliar with Java.

Padilla, Alex D wrote:
> Does anyone know of any issues when programming with arrays in J2ME
> and any possible solutions for this problem? I have had some problems

> specifically with two-dimensional arrays.
>
> Thank you all in advance.
>
> ======================================================================
> ===== To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include
> in the body of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help,
> send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the
> message "help".
>

________________________________________________________________________
E-mail is an informal method of communication and may be subject to data
corruption, interception and unauthorised amendment for which I-play, a
trading name of Digital Bridges Ltd will accept no liability. Therefore,
it will normally be inappropriate to rely on information contained on
e-mail without obtaining written confirmation.

This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If
you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in
error) please notify the sender immediately and destroy this e-mail. Any
unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this
e-mail is strictly forbidden.

(C) 2005. I-play is a trademark and trading name of Digital Bridges
Limited. All Rights Reserved.
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terrencebarr
Offline
Joined: 2004-03-04
Points: 0

Alex,

FIrst, does your application show the array-related issues on WTK 2.5? If it runs fine there then you might be running into a bug on your specific device. Especially in the earlier days of Java ME the VM implementations were quite buggy at times. Newer devices have much improved VMs. What device are you using?

If your app fails on WTK then I suspect your code is incorrect. WTK is very mature and if your app fails there you need to debug the root cause.

-- Terrence

Hartti Suomela

Hi Randal,

Let me confirm Daniel's response as I have been researching these issues
for my forthcoming security domain presentation in Java ME Developer Day
in Santa Clara.
https://developerdays.dev.java.net/

The application has to be either developed by/for Nokia or
Nokia-branded. There is no way around this requirement.

The suggestion I have that you instruct the users how to change the
default permission settings to "Always allowed". Not optimal solution, I
agree.

FWIW
For the presentation I also asked some comments from Motorola and Sony
Ericsson. I did not have a contact for Samsung, so no information for
them, I am afraid.

Motorola
Manufacturer signing requires valid Partner Agreement to be in place.
See http://developer.motorola.com for the requirements to become a
partner.

Sony Ericsson
Manufacturer signing requires MIDlet to be Sony Ericsson owned or
licensed

best regards
Hartti Suomela
Forum Nokia

PS. in case anyone is interested in more detailed information about
security domain implementations and with various carriers, please check
http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Java_Security_Domains

-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
[mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext Randal Juliano
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:03 AM
To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject: Re: Manufacturer signing

Thanks Daniel for the prompt response.

I'll elaborate on my issue and maybe you have other suggestions.

We have developed a Java client for our service and we have successfully
certified it through NSTL as a Java Certified application (3rd party
signing). Our problem is that our application uses Network APIs, Sound
Recording APIs and Filesystem APIs and when using them the user is
prompted at least once to authorise the access.

The use case for our application is a very dynamic one where the user
starts the application, uses it for a quick operation and then exits it
so that means that the user will be prompted every time, creating a bad
user experience.

Is there a way around this issue? Operator signing is a complicated path
because one has to certify it with each specific operator so that's why
I was considering the manufacturer route.

Thanks again,
Randal Pinto

--- Daniel Rocha wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Currently Nokia does not offer such a program, unless the application
> is developed under contract with the company and is Nokia-branded.
> This way we could sign it with our manufacturer certificate.
>
> Daniel Rocha
> Forum Nokia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
> [mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext Randal Juliano
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:23 AM
> To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
> Subject: Manufacturer signing
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know whether Samsung and Nokia have a similar program to
> Motorola's Motodev where you can have your JavaME application signed
> with a manufacturer certificate? Any information is appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Randal Pinto
>
> Technical Project Manager
> Shazam Entertainment Ltd.
> http://www.shazam.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> ____________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>
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>
>
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> body of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send
> email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message
> "help".
>
>
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>

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Daniel Rocha

Hi,

Currently Nokia does not offer such a program, unless the application is
developed under contract with the company and is Nokia-branded. This way
we could sign it with our manufacturer certificate.

Daniel Rocha
Forum Nokia

-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
[mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext Randal Juliano
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:23 AM
To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
Subject: Manufacturer signing

Hi,

Does anyone know whether Samsung and Nokia have a similar program to
Motorola's Motodev where you can have your JavaME application signed
with a manufacturer certificate? Any information is appreciated.

Regards,

Randal Pinto

Technical Project Manager
Shazam Entertainment Ltd.
http://www.shazam.co.uk

________________________________________________________________________
____________
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Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
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email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message
"help".

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Randal Juliano

Thanks Daniel for the prompt response.

I'll elaborate on my issue and maybe you have other
suggestions.

We have developed a Java client for our service and we
have successfully certified it through NSTL as a Java
Certified application (3rd party signing). Our problem
is that our application uses Network APIs, Sound
Recording APIs and Filesystem APIs and when using them
the user is prompted at least once to authorise the
access.

The use case for our application is a very dynamic one
where the user starts the application, uses it for a
quick operation and then exits it so that means that
the user will be prompted every time, creating a bad
user experience.

Is there a way around this issue? Operator signing is
a complicated path because one has to certify it with
each specific operator so that's why I was considering
the manufacturer route.

Thanks again,
Randal Pinto

--- Daniel Rocha wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Currently Nokia does not offer such a program,
> unless the application is
> developed under contract with the company and is
> Nokia-branded. This way
> we could sign it with our manufacturer certificate.
>
> Daniel Rocha
> Forum Nokia
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
> [mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext
> Randal Juliano
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:23 AM
> To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
> Subject: Manufacturer signing
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone know whether Samsung and Nokia have a
> similar program to
> Motorola's Motodev where you can have your JavaME
> application signed
> with a manufacturer certificate? Any information is
> appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Randal Pinto
>
> Technical Project Manager
> Shazam Entertainment Ltd.
> http://www.shazam.co.uk
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> ____________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
>
>
========================================================================
> ===
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com
> and include in the
> body of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For
> general help, send
> email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the
> body of the message
> "help".
>
>
===========================================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com
> and include in the body
> of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general
> help, send email to
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>

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Joe Bowbeer

As you're probably aware, OEM signing might work for handsets bought
from the OEM's store, but not for the handsets sold by the operators.
The operators often select the root certificates that are installed on
their handsets.

On Jan 18, 2008 8:03 AM, Randal Juliano wrote:
> Thanks Daniel for the prompt response.
>
> I'll elaborate on my issue and maybe you have other
> suggestions.
>
> We have developed a Java client for our service and we
> have successfully certified it through NSTL as a Java
> Certified application (3rd party signing). Our problem
> is that our application uses Network APIs, Sound
> Recording APIs and Filesystem APIs and when using them
> the user is prompted at least once to authorise the
> access.
>
> The use case for our application is a very dynamic one
> where the user starts the application, uses it for a
> quick operation and then exits it so that means that
> the user will be prompted every time, creating a bad
> user experience.
>
> Is there a way around this issue? Operator signing is
> a complicated path because one has to certify it with
> each specific operator so that's why I was considering
> the manufacturer route.
>
> Thanks again,
> Randal Pinto
>
>
> --- Daniel Rocha wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > Currently Nokia does not offer such a program,
> > unless the application is
> > developed under contract with the company and is
> > Nokia-branded. This way
> > we could sign it with our manufacturer certificate.
> >
> > Daniel Rocha
> > Forum Nokia
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
> > [mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext
> > Randal Juliano
> > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:23 AM
> > To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
> > Subject: Manufacturer signing
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Does anyone know whether Samsung and Nokia have a
> > similar program to
> > Motorola's Motodev where you can have your JavaME
> > application signed
> > with a manufacturer certificate? Any information is
> > appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Randal Pinto
> >
> > Technical Project Manager
> > Shazam Entertainment Ltd.
> > http://www.shazam.co.uk
> >

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Jliss-Viewsonics

This is a problem that I have been chasing for several years. The entire certificating setup for J2ME phones make it virtually
impossible for smaller developers, i.e., not service provider partners (try jumping through those hoops) to deploy applications on
phones and use protected classes. I have worked mostly with Motorola phones and yes you can get certificates through MOTODEV but try
to use them with phones from Verizon, or ATT or any other provider ! I have had to move the majority of our company's development
efforts to RIM Blackberry platforms as they are the only company that has a workable certificating process that works across all
Service Providers systems. Even there, companies like Verizon, in particular, go ahead and disable functions paid for in the phone
purchase, like GPS, but at least we can use the classes provided on the phone properly. As long as the current certificate scheme is
used it will remain unworkable for the majority of handsets on the market.

Jerome
jliss@viewsonicsinc.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
> [mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM]On Behalf Of Joe Bowbeer
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 12:30 PM
> To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
> Subject: Re: Manufacturer signing
>
>
> As you're probably aware, OEM signing might work for handsets bought
> from the OEM's store, but not for the handsets sold by the operators.
> The operators often select the root certificates that are installed on
> their handsets.
>
> On Jan 18, 2008 8:03 AM, Randal Juliano wrote:
> > Thanks Daniel for the prompt response.
> >
> > I'll elaborate on my issue and maybe you have other
> > suggestions.
> >
> > We have developed a Java client for our service and we
> > have successfully certified it through NSTL as a Java
> > Certified application (3rd party signing). Our problem
> > is that our application uses Network APIs, Sound
> > Recording APIs and Filesystem APIs and when using them
> > the user is prompted at least once to authorise the
> > access.
> >
> > The use case for our application is a very dynamic one
> > where the user starts the application, uses it for a
> > quick operation and then exits it so that means that
> > the user will be prompted every time, creating a bad
> > user experience.
> >
> > Is there a way around this issue? Operator signing is
> > a complicated path because one has to certify it with
> > each specific operator so that's why I was considering
> > the manufacturer route.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Randal Pinto
> >
> >
> > --- Daniel Rocha wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Currently Nokia does not offer such a program,
> > > unless the application is
> > > developed under contract with the company and is
> > > Nokia-branded. This way
> > > we could sign it with our manufacturer certificate.
> > >
> > > Daniel Rocha
> > > Forum Nokia
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
> > > [mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext
> > > Randal Juliano
> > > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:23 AM
> > > To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
> > > Subject: Manufacturer signing
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > Does anyone know whether Samsung and Nokia have a
> > > similar program to
> > > Motorola's Motodev where you can have your JavaME
> > > application signed
> > > with a manufacturer certificate? Any information is
> > > appreciated.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Randal Pinto
> > >
> > > Technical Project Manager
> > > Shazam Entertainment Ltd.
> > > http://www.shazam.co.uk
> > >
>
> ===========================================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body
> of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send email to
> listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message "help".

===========================================================================
To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body
of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send email to
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Chris B

How come there is a need for certificates in the first place?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jliss-Viewsonics"
To:
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: Manufacturer signing A MAJOR PRPBLEM

> This is a problem that I have been chasing for several years. The entire
certificating setup for J2ME phones make it virtually
> impossible for smaller developers, i.e., not service provider partners
(try jumping through those hoops) to deploy applications on
> phones and use protected classes. I have worked mostly with Motorola
phones and yes you can get certificates through MOTODEV but try
> to use them with phones from Verizon, or ATT or any other provider ! I
have had to move the majority of our company's development
> efforts to RIM Blackberry platforms as they are the only company that has
a workable certificating process that works across all
> Service Providers systems. Even there, companies like Verizon, in
particular, go ahead and disable functions paid for in the phone
> purchase, like GPS, but at least we can use the classes provided on the
phone properly. As long as the current certificate scheme is
> used it will remain unworkable for the majority of handsets on the market.
>
> Jerome
> jliss@viewsonicsinc.com
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
> > [mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM]On Behalf Of Joe Bowbeer
> > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 12:30 PM
> > To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
> > Subject: Re: Manufacturer signing
> >
> >
> > As you're probably aware, OEM signing might work for handsets bought
> > from the OEM's store, but not for the handsets sold by the operators.
> > The operators often select the root certificates that are installed on
> > their handsets.
> >
> > On Jan 18, 2008 8:03 AM, Randal Juliano wrote:
> > > Thanks Daniel for the prompt response.
> > >
> > > I'll elaborate on my issue and maybe you have other
> > > suggestions.
> > >
> > > We have developed a Java client for our service and we
> > > have successfully certified it through NSTL as a Java
> > > Certified application (3rd party signing). Our problem
> > > is that our application uses Network APIs, Sound
> > > Recording APIs and Filesystem APIs and when using them
> > > the user is prompted at least once to authorise the
> > > access.
> > >
> > > The use case for our application is a very dynamic one
> > > where the user starts the application, uses it for a
> > > quick operation and then exits it so that means that
> > > the user will be prompted every time, creating a bad
> > > user experience.
> > >
> > > Is there a way around this issue? Operator signing is
> > > a complicated path because one has to certify it with
> > > each specific operator so that's why I was considering
> > > the manufacturer route.
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Randal Pinto
> > >
> > >
> > > --- Daniel Rocha wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Currently Nokia does not offer such a program,
> > > > unless the application is
> > > > developed under contract with the company and is
> > > > Nokia-branded. This way
> > > > we could sign it with our manufacturer certificate.
> > > >
> > > > Daniel Rocha
> > > > Forum Nokia
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: A mailing list for KVM discussion
> > > > [mailto:KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM] On Behalf Of ext
> > > > Randal Juliano
> > > > Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 10:23 AM
> > > > To: KVM-INTEREST@JAVA.SUN.COM
> > > > Subject: Manufacturer signing
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know whether Samsung and Nokia have a
> > > > similar program to
> > > > Motorola's Motodev where you can have your JavaME
> > > > application signed
> > > > with a manufacturer certificate? Any information is
> > > > appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Randal Pinto
> > > >
> > > > Technical Project Manager
> > > > Shazam Entertainment Ltd.
> > > > http://www.shazam.co.uk
> > > >
> >
> >
===========================================================================
> > To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the
body
> > of the message "signoff KVM-INTEREST". For general help, send email to
> > listserv@java.sun.com and include in the body of the message "help".
>
>
===========================================================================
> To unsubscribe, send email to listserv@java.sun.com and include in the
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