Skip to main content

Official Spec Logos..

12 replies [Last post]
bddeveloper
Offline
Joined: 2008-01-14

One thing my client has read is that the BDA is going to push is to place BD Spec version logos on the back of discs. I was wondering if anyone knew if the BDA is going to allow this to be used on non Hollywood Titles? Also since it is far too expensive for my client and us to join the BDA currently I was wondering if anyone knew if the BDA is going to change this now that they might have won the format war?

Thanks again.

Scott

Reply viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
stolsvik
Offline
Joined: 2006-09-17

Sorry if I come out totally clueless here, but I can't help wondering: Why isn't the license and docs for content providers to Blu-ray with BD-J free? (docs, spec - "SDK"/"Content DK" - all of it?)

Shouldn't this be made into a huge standardized platform, free to take part in, beneficial for everyone?

I can only come to the conclusion that if the platform was open and available for everyone to program to, it would be a huge boon for all parts: the developers (way lower barrier to participate, there will be many more of them, new libraries will appear, much more innovation), the product manufacturers (bigger demand for a device which have tons of content from all kinds of companies, possibly not only movies), and last, but not least, the consumers (obviously!).

billshepp
Offline
Joined: 2004-05-20

> Sorry if I come out totally clueless here, but I
> can't help wondering: Why isn't the license and docs
> for content providers to Blu-ray with BD-J free?
> (docs, spec - "SDK"/"Content DK" - all of it?)
>
> Shouldn't this be made into a huge standardized
> platform, free to take part in, beneficial for
> everyone?
>
> I can only come to the conclusion that if the
> platform was open and available for everyone to
> program to, it would be a huge boon for all parts:
> the developers (way lower barrier to participate,
> there will be many more of them, new libraries will
> appear, much more innovation), the product
> manufacturers (bigger demand for a device which have
> tons of content from all kinds of companies, possibly
> not only movies), and last, but not least, the
> consumers (obviously!).

Many of us agree, but for better or for worse some of the BDA Director companies take a far more cautious approach to the platform. We're working to find a good compromise that makes developer information accessible to those with a bona fide interest without lowering the bar so far that tire-kickers clog up the system...

Endre Stølsvik

bd-j-dev@mobileandembedded.org wrote:
>> Sorry if I come out totally clueless here, but I
>> can't help wondering: Why isn't the license and docs
>> for content providers to Blu-ray with BD-J free?
>> (docs, spec - "SDK"/"Content DK" - all of it?)
>>
>> Shouldn't this be made into a huge standardized
>> platform, free to take part in, beneficial for
>> everyone?
>>
>> I can only come to the conclusion that if the
>> platform was open and available for everyone to
>> program to, it would be a huge boon for all parts:
>> the developers (way lower barrier to participate,
>> there will be many more of them, new libraries will
>> appear, much more innovation), the product
>> manufacturers (bigger demand for a device which have
>> tons of content from all kinds of companies, possibly
>> not only movies), and last, but not least, the
>> consumers (obviously!).
>
> Many of us agree, but for better or for worse some of the BDA Director companies take a far more cautious approach to the platform. We're working to find a good compromise that makes developer information accessible to those with a bona fide interest without lowering the bar so far that tire-kickers clog up the system...
> [Message sent by forum member 'billshepp' (billshepp)]

When did tire-kickers become a _problem_, I have to ask? Have anyone of
the BDA Director companies that have this opinion had a look at the open
source scene at all? Tire-kickers are often the ones that start new
stuff. If something starts, and it is good, others will chip in, and
soon enough you will have a really good thing going. Stupid stuff, or
really bad stuff, dies all by itself.

Sure, you do get some debris floating around, maybe making the decision
process for other tire-kickers somewhat more difficult than if
everything is tightly controlled. But for the Ola Normanns (and John
Does) in general, nothing will enter their field of view before it has
become hugely mainstream in any case.

Very much of the proprietary software these days make heavy use of open
source libraries. Thus, even the closed source companies will benefit
from an abundance of "start code". And think of the "distributed
development" when one have this problem with huge differences in
hardware: I have some SlickWare-Super Model 1.5E9, and code some cool
effects towards that. However, this other guy sits with a
BarelyWork-Minor V.Bug-Ridden, loves my idea, but it just won't work on
his crappy player - so he fixes it. If this was some library - everyone
would be better off - not least the end users..!

Everything, IMHO, points towards the logic that to harvest the best
crop, you should plant an abundance of seeds. This will make the
undergrowth somewhat thicker, but those truly new and innovative breeds
can much more easily be born that way..!

Finally, I don't think you can hold this in for too long in any case.
People will start to code towards it, legally or not. Stuff will crop up
and break out. Better just work with it, direct it, leech off of it,
than try to work against it.
(Have a Canon camera? Check out Camera Hackers Development Kit; CHDK:
http://chdk.setepontos.com/
http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK_firmware_usage Just check that stuff
out, it's wicked! RAW capture for compacts! Extended manual parameters!
Motion detection! Games! You can script your camera in basic! The list
goes on! The initial stuff is done by some Russians hackers, but now it
is developed by many others)

Endre.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: bd-j-dev-unsubscribe@hdcookbook.dev.java.net
For additional commands, e-mail: bd-j-dev-help@hdcookbook.dev.java.net

billshepp
Offline
Joined: 2004-05-20

bd-j-dev@mobileandembedded.org wrote:

> When did tire-kickers become a _problem_, I have to ask? Have anyone of
> the BDA Director companies that have this opinion had a look at the open
> source scene at all? Tire-kickers are often the ones that start new
> stuff. If something starts, and it is good, others will chip in, and
> soon enough you will have a really good thing going.

I don't disagree, but there is a different mindset at work in many specification organizations which includes lots of lawyers concerned with liability (what if a security hole was found in a player which some third-party content exploited), indemnity, etc. We're making progress but it's a "two steps forward one step back" sort of process. For what it's worth, we have the same dynamic at work in the related OCAP/tru2way marketplace, but we're also making progress there as well (big news coming tomorrow).

Bill

billshepp
Offline
Joined: 2004-05-20

> One thing my client has read is that the BDA is going
> to push is to place BD Spec version logos on the back
> of discs. I was wondering if anyone knew if the BDA
> is going to allow this to be used on non Hollywood
> Titles?

Definitely no restriction as long as you've signed the proper agreements as Joe referenced.

> Also since it is far too expensive for my
> client and us to join the BDA currently I was
> wondering if anyone knew if the BDA is going to
> change this now that they might have won the format
> war?

There has been no discussion of changing fee structure. However, accessing the spec and documentation is what most content providers are interested in, and there have been steps to reduce costs associated with accessing the spec, including availability of the "Content Provider Light" license and the upcoming JavaDoc availability.

Bill

Joe Rice

Bill -

Do the CPA agreements allow access to the spec?

Joe

On Jan 14, 2008, at 12:50 PM, bd-j-dev@mobileandembedded.org wrote:

>> One thing my client has read is that the BDA is going
>> to push is to place BD Spec version logos on the back
>> of discs. I was wondering if anyone knew if the BDA
>> is going to allow this to be used on non Hollywood
>> Titles?
>
> Definitely no restriction as long as you've signed the proper
> agreements as Joe referenced.
>
>> Also since it is far too expensive for my
>> client and us to join the BDA currently I was
>> wondering if anyone knew if the BDA is going to
>> change this now that they might have won the format
>> war?
>
> There has been no discussion of changing fee structure. However,
> accessing the spec and documentation is what most content providers
> are interested in, and there have been steps to reduce costs
> associated with accessing the spec, including availability of the
> "Content Provider Light" license and the upcoming JavaDoc
> availability.
>
> Bill
> [Message sent by forum member 'billshepp' (billshepp)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=253836
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: bd-j-dev-unsubscribe@hdcookbook.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: bd-j-dev-help@hdcookbook.dev.java.net
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: bd-j-dev-unsubscribe@hdcookbook.dev.java.net
For additional commands, e-mail: bd-j-dev-help@hdcookbook.dev.java.net

billshepp
Offline
Joined: 2004-05-20

> Do the CPA agreements allow access to the spec?

I believe the spec book(s) must still be separately licensed.

Bill

bddeveloper
Offline
Joined: 2008-01-14

Oh that is too bad $15,000 for the spec books are out of the range for us, we would need a client who wants to pay for a lot of titles in BD-J verse just using HDMV. Is there a reason the books are priced at that range? To be quite honest the spec books would help a great deal in particular just dealing with performance issues and learning those "tricks".

Bill Foote

bd-j-dev@mobileandembedded.org wrote:
> Oh that is too bad $15,000 for the spec books are out of the range for us, we would need a client who wants to pay for a lot of titles in BD-J verse just using HDMV. Is there a reason the books are priced at that range? To be quite honest the spec books would help a great deal in particular just dealing with performance issues and learning those "tricks".

We know. We're working on solutions to that.

One of our goals is very much to allow people like yourself to
do BD-J development on spec (if you'll pardon the pun). We're
working on making the specifications more widely available.

Cheers,

Bill

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: bd-j-dev-unsubscribe@hdcookbook.dev.java.net
For additional commands, e-mail: bd-j-dev-help@hdcookbook.dev.java.net

bddeveloper
Offline
Joined: 2008-01-14

Bill do you have a time frame for this that we can tell our client?

Bill Foote

bd-j-dev@mobileandembedded.org wrote:
> Bill do you have a time frame for this that we can tell our client?

Ummm... for which part, exactly?

Maybe this would be better off-list... Could you maybe send
me an e-mail? bill dot foote at sun dot com.

I'll respond as quickly as I can, but please be understanding that
I'm on quasi-vacation until Thursday. I'm actually in Nevada volunteering
for presidential campaign caucusing at the moment ;-)

Cheers,

Bill

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: bd-j-dev-unsubscribe@hdcookbook.dev.java.net
For additional commands, e-mail: bd-j-dev-help@hdcookbook.dev.java.net

Joe Rice

Logos and such are handled by the licensing organization at http://www.blu-raydisc.info/

For logo use I think you probably just need the content provider or
content participant license, but best to check with them to be safe.
This might also be something that replicators provide (as with DVD).

Cheers,
Joe

On Jan 14, 2008, at 11:59 AM, bd-j-dev@mobileandembedded.org wrote:

> One thing my client has read is that the BDA is going to push is to
> place BD Spec version logos on the back of discs. I was wondering
> if anyone knew if the BDA is going to allow this to be used on non
> Hollywood Titles? Also since it is far too expensive for my client
> and us to join the BDA currently I was wondering if anyone knew if
> the BDA is going to change this now that they might have won the
> format war?
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Scott
> [Message sent by forum member 'bddeveloper' (bddeveloper)]
>
> http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=253820
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: bd-j-dev-unsubscribe@hdcookbook.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: bd-j-dev-help@hdcookbook.dev.java.net
>

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: bd-j-dev-unsubscribe@hdcookbook.dev.java.net
For additional commands, e-mail: bd-j-dev-help@hdcookbook.dev.java.net