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GPhone platform announced and No Java mentioned...but asked to assume

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sfitzjava
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Joined: 2003-06-15
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First it was the iPhone, and we didn't get invited, now the GPhone platform, and Java looks to have once again missed the boat. :(

Instead of everyone at Sun talking how great of a future we can expect with JavaME, how about someone actually do something, and start to make it a reality. Let's get JavaME on phones and in a usable CONTROLLED state, and by controlled I mean by the Sun, and not the operators.

I can only hope when the final details of GPhone (Android) come out that Java will be there. (as usual, as an afterthought).

-Shawn

UPDATE: It appears that Mr. Schwartz has some input on this topic, and maybe in an effort to hint... I mean HINT at the details of Android has his blog entry stating that Android WILL have Java in it. http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/

It would REALLY help if Google would have been a little more forthcoming with the Java connection. However this is not to say that Mr. Schwartz's blog has the facts correct either... we can only hope that he is on the inside and not just mis-informed from the many rumors that were going on before the actual GPhone announcement.

Update2: Well 2 companies have been added to the OHA members list within the past 21hours which give hope to Java on the device.
http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/press_110507.html (see additional supporting quote by Jean-Claude Martinez, CEO of Esmertec)
and
http://www.aplixcorp.com/en/release/2007/pr11052007.html

So where's Sun? They are not on the list of supporting member of the OHA. So it would seem that JBed will be the java implementation on these devices. (Which is a great product, but no phoneME?)

Update 3: So everyone wants us to Assume that Java ME is in there, but no one want to say the actual words. While Esmertec and Aplix Corp are there, it would seem they are not saying they are providing anything into the stack.
But now to address those who assume, we all assumed because it was Apple, and that it was an Arm9 CPU that the iPhone would have Java, we also dreamed similar dreams for the iPod back in the day, we continued to assume that ZFS would be in Leopard, and that Java6 would be really good on it as well. And so how did those assumptions go for you there.... Hmm...
Sadly products like the BUG, at Buglabs.net suffer because they can't get Sun to provide them a license for Java to put on their device. Maybe the same is true for Android. Maybe someone at Sun in the legal department should start getting some work done so that companies can take this open source JDK and Java to use on devices.

Message was edited by: sfitzjava

Message was edited by: sfitzjava

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terrencebarr
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Joined: 2004-03-04
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Hi Shawn,

Couple of things:

Part of what makes Android confusing is that there is actually very little information about what is actually in the platform. It *appears* that Dalvik VM runs some kind of Java - presumably a derivative of the Harmony project. Android is inventing its own application model and API functionality for all the underlying middleware. Finally, Google explicitly expects proprietary extensions and features in the stack but doesn't detail what the developer can expect and how this will affect fragmentation. So at this point it is hard to say how Android and standard Java and/or Java ME will play together. Some more background information in my blog:

http://weblogs.java.net/blog/terrencebarr/archive/2007/11/sooo_what_abou...

As for BugLabs, your statement is not quite correct. BugLabs is *not* seeking a license for Java - what BugLabs is seeking is access to the TCKs to test their port of phoneME. This is really independent to the Android announcement.

-- Terrence

jozart
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Joined: 2003-11-23
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Java is the primary foundation for software running Android.

You can easily verify this by downloading the Android SDK.

sfitzjava
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Joined: 2003-06-15
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WoooHooo... there is java in androids... there really is. :)



So finally someone blinked and said the word Java....



But is it JavaME... (no) Is it JavaSE...(no) is it JavaEE... (no) .... ??!?! what is it?



It makes since why they didn't come out and say "java.. it's in there", that's because Java isn't in Androids.... but didn't I just say it was?!?!



It all comes down to Trademark / Copyright issues I would speculate. If it doesn't pass the TCK, it's not java...it may be java-like, but it's not Java with a capital "(tm)". :)



They have what they call a "Dalvik" VM, instead of a Java VM, but it looks like (and sounds like) it runs standard Java Jarfiles.



It seems to take some of the thoughts from JavaME, and OSGi on its life-cycle of an app, and the api calls. It's a slightly different looking beast, however with a plugin for Eclipse there should be a reasonable path to development.



I'm not sure I like it (due to a lack of time so far to look at it), but it doesn't completely sound like insanity, so time will tell how useful of a product it becomes.



Oh it also sound like they have a few Million $$ to give away for application development... Hmmm.... Maybe I can be bribed into liking it. ;)



-Shawn