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Java has harmed Unix but helped Windows win

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Joined: 2006-03-20
I wish James Gosling and Scott McNealy would read this - tried emailing them the link, but NO REPLY from them!
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Joined: 2003-12-02

shocking revelation, and completely wrong...
Anyway, xterm is evil. It's a sign of you using a graphical shell over your operating system rather than a pure text based terminal as you should were you a real programmer (just to take the next logical step from your assertion that people no longer using command lines is bad, which is a wrong assertion because people do use the commandline).

I have 2 computers here at the office. One is running Windows, the other Linux.
From both I've access to dozens of our servers, all of which run Solaris or Linux.
On each I've at all times between 3 and 10 command shells open.

And that's pretty much normal here...

I've used Unix since before I started out in the business of programming for a living. Moving from C and Cobol to Java hasn't changed that, in fact it's increased the amount of time I spend using the operating system.

Anyway, if Java weren't around far less companies would use Unix based servers these days than are using it as far more serverside software would be created for mainframes and Windows servers.
So Java may well have saved Unix, maybe even increased its use, rather than harm it.
On the desktop it's no contest though. Unless and until Unix desktop systems become usable for the average person (when even now they're barely usable even for techies) that will never happen and people will continue to use Windows simply because it actually works, and lets applications work seamlessly together.
Like it or not, but actual people want their applications to work together more than they want to have a choice of which of 500 text editors to use (in fact most of your typical office users never use a text editor at all).

Joined: 2004-03-04

This is really stupid.

Your starting data point is that nobody seems to code through the command line interface anymore.

Hmm.. Okay. Let us say that is true.

If true then, is it a bad thing?

In fact it is not a bad thing. Coding (or doing just about anything else) on the command line sucks tremendously compared to doing the same thing through a decent GUI.

(Disclaimer: I use a command line at least once a day to run a particular script that runs a java program. I really should slap a gui on it, but I can't be bothered. But I _developed and tested the code_ in a windowing system, not from the command line *shudder*)

About the only thing I do semi-regularly with the command line is fire off a ping (if I suspect the netowrk is down... approx 1-2 occurences per month), and when I'm poking around on a server ls -al to see what is _really_ there. Oh, maybe the occassional chmod.

Frankly, if I had to code day in day out through the command line I would go postal. And I don't mean telnet.

So, if we grant the tremendous suckitude of coding through a command line (sorry vi guys, Xemacs wins this round), that then explains why no sane person does it anymore.

In fact... if we consider that the Mac OS X range of operating systems is (allegedly ;-) based on unix, we could say that Unix is now more popular than ever. If we really stretched the definition and included that six fingered and web toed relative of Unix known popularly as Linux (and unpopularly as GNU/Linux)... then we could happily say that there are heck of a lot more Unix servers now than there were 10-20 years ago. And between OS X, Linspire (the OS formerly known as Lindows), the distro formerly known as red hat**, Gentoo, Debian and Ubunut, Unix is actually a lot more popular now on the desktop than it ever was.

** Fedora?

The command line: a great place to visit briefly for its wide selection of power tools, but I wouldn't want to live there.

Joined: 2003-09-10

I don't think thats true. In my country (The Netherlands) if you go to an job interview for Java developer everywhere they ask the question : "what do you think of Linux and do you have experience with it?". Lots of Java developer use Linux.

Java gives you the freedom to choice your favorit OS, one developer can work on Linux and the other on Windows without problems.

What Anil Philip's wants is to force people to use only Linux, to take away peoples freedom instead give them freedom like Java does.

Joined: 2006-02-20

Sorry, but that was just silly.I think you overestimate the leverage Java has on average computer users. The only way your proposed move could ever hurt Microsoft would be if Microsoft Office was written in pure Java and Microsoft were unable to deliver a JVM implementation of their own....

As this is not the case, the only thing your proposal would do would be to wave an enormous "java=extremely high risk" warning flag in front of every manager of the world. Furthermore, as Java has been open sourced, Sun couldn't even do it if they wanted to.

If you dislike the dominance of Windows over other operating systems, contribute to those other operating systems until people move to them voluntarily. It's that simple.

Joined: 2006-11-10

Can't agree. I grew up on DOS and then Windows. It was Java that took me into the Unix world and made me see that it's actually better. Today I use Linux for desktop whenever possible.

Joined: 2006-07-24

Me too :)

Joined: 2003-06-18

Same here. And after that I have used entirely Linux and converted tens of desktops.

Joined: 2005-09-22

Me 2, I'm leaving Windows to Linux this particular night, good bye Windows :))

Joined: 2004-01-07

this si stupid.

Java gives you choice and thats why its the enemy of Microsoft (as written in they secret now public leaked letters).

lg Clemens

Joined: 2004-07-26

Sorry, I think you are just wrong.

I understand the feeling, I'm UNIX guy too (although younger one, almost the "linux" generation). Windows and their environment is something new, strange, different, sometimes just twisted.

Unfortunately, most people out there consider Windows as THE operating system and environment. This "new linux thing" is just "new", "strange", "different" for them. And most decision makers are from this category.

Removing Java from Windows would be just major blow to UNIX. Programmers will NOT rush to install Linux/Unix on their PC to continue working: they will be forced to install Windows.