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Great begining.

5 replies [Last post]
swapnonil
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Joined: 2003-06-11
Points: 0

What do most Swing developers do for a living?

Answer.

Beginners:

1.They write small to medium sized data entry tools which act as front ends for every Tom, Dick and Harry to interact with the database.
2. They also create data entry tools that perform CRUD operations on data or configuration files.

Intermediate:

1. Create visually appealing business intelligence software like, reporting tools, charting tools, trend analysis systems etc.
2. Build miscellaneous utility tools used for deploying, configuration, monitoring etc of server side components which may or may not JMX enabled.

Experts:

1. Create IDE's and other advanced document editing software.
2. Create advanced visualization software like CAD/CAM tools.

The point that I am trying to make is that, Swing offers very little support that helps all the above category of developers speed up their development effort.
For example if am writing front ends which act as data entry tools for a database, I may want my widgets to be ?database aware controls?. I cannot extend or JTextField or tell JTextField that the text it may be dealing with is a java.util.Date object, and hence show me a calendar pop-up dialog to let users select a date.
I do not have smart widgets and components like Oracle?s BIBeans which help me creating rich charting and reporting applications.
If I want to create an IDE, I cannot get an ?out of the box? Java or HTML editor like Scintilla text editor control.

In other words the whole Swing community is screaming out for something similar to what JFace is in the SWT world.

I do not expect JDNC to solve all these problems, but the important thing to note is that we in the Swing community have to get our focus right, going forward. Building a Web Browser, File Explorer or some bloody Screensaver software is not going to help us in a big way.
Guys these are just icings on the cake. The cake itself has to have more ingredients for it become worth relishing.

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Anonymous

We do have plans to implement many more "data-aware" components in jdnc which make it VERY easy to bind the UI to data models, including a database rowset.

We have been focusing on the specific shortcuts required for creating "data-centric" clients rather than tackling ease-of-development for the full gambit of apps, but we've found that what helps in the data-centric world ends up benefiting all levels of development.

By all means, please make specific suggestions (file RFEs) as to exactly what features you need.

digitalrinaldo
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Joined: 2003-06-17
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I also think this is a great beginning. I am particularly interested in using JDNC for IT workers needing quick, feature rich reports. I am researching java based reporting solutions that *must* deploy using applets or JNLP. JDNC almost meets my requirements. Is there a plan to add the following:

Multicolumn sorting with memory. My users currently have the ability to sort multiple columns and specify a sort order.

Are there any plans for adding sub totals? It would be very useful to specify the columns and sort order and have sub totals appear.

Is there a process for user to add the above features to the existing code base?

What is the suggested approach for remembering user preferences?

Has any thought been given to charting support, For example JFreeChart, great charting tools but way too labor intensive to use for me. I prefer the JDNC approach.

rameshgupta
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Joined: 2004-06-04
Points: 0

> I also think this is a great beginning. I am
> particularly interested in using JDNC for IT workers
> needing quick, feature rich reports. I am researching
> java based reporting solutions that *must* deploy
> using applets or JNLP. JDNC almost meets my
> requirements. Is there a plan to add the following:
>
> Multicolumn sorting with memory. My users currently
> have the ability to sort multiple columns and specify
> a sort order.

This is already supported out of the box in JXTable. Multiple column sorting can be set up using multiple filters in a FilterPipeline. Please see http://www.javadesktop.org/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=18576#18576

>
> Are there any plans for adding sub totals? It would
> be very useful to specify the columns and sort order
> and have sub totals appear.

Yes, we have plans for supporting what we call "virtual rows" that display various kinds of values computed from "real rows" in a table model.

>
> Is there a process for user to add the above features
> to the existing code base?
>
Yes, users can start participating by making code contributions in the form of diffs, but non-Sun employees have to sign a JCA first. Please see https://jdnc.dev.java.net/#contribute for more details.

> What is the suggested approach for remembering user
> preferences?
>
Wish I had more to say than what I mentioned in http://www.javadesktop.org/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=18576#18576 :-)

> Has any thought been given to charting support, For
> example JFreeChart, great charting tools but way too
> labor intensive to use for me. I prefer the JDNC
> approach.

At present, the JDNC team has no plans for developing a charting component from scratch. We are always looking for contributions, though :-)

Ramesh

Amy Fowler

>>Has any thought been given to charting support, For
>>example JFreeChart, great charting tools but way too
>>labor intensive to use for me. I prefer the JDNC
>>approach.
>
>
> At present, the JDNC team has no plans for developing a charting component from scratch. We are always looking for contributions, though :-)

This raises an important need, which is to make it easy to use/integrate
useful 3rd party components/libraries with JDNC. Obviously one could
do that today just using the basic APIs (afterall, it's all just Swing),
however it seems like we could make it easier -- perhaps offering
some co-bundled options on the download for some of the most popular
libraries (jgoodies, jfreechart, ...). Licensing, versioning, etc
issues might be one of the primary stumbling blocks.

Ant is probably an excellent example project from which we can gleen
some insight on how to facilitate this sort of thing.

Also, using 3rd party libs with our tag library currently requires some
reverse engineering of the markup package; we need to fix that with
better documentation and possibly easier ways to integrate foreign API
into the tags.

Aim

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Patrick Wright

>>>Has any thought been given to charting support, For
>>>example JFreeChart, great charting tools but way too
>>>labor intensive to use for me. I prefer the JDNC
>>>approach.
>>
>>
>> At present, the JDNC team has no plans for developing a charting
>> component from scratch. We are always looking for contributions, though
>> :-)
>
> This raises an important need, which is to make it easy to use/integrate
> useful 3rd party components/libraries with JDNC. Obviously one could
> do that today just using the basic APIs (afterall, it's all just Swing),
> however it seems like we could make it easier -- perhaps offering
> some co-bundled options on the download for some of the most popular
> libraries (jgoodies, jfreechart, ...). Licensing, versioning, etc
> issues might be one of the primary stumbling blocks.


+1 to the idea. The amount of useful Swing code out there under different
open-source/free software/public domain licenses is overwhelming but in
the larger sense, encouraging. And the competition drives the whole
process foward.

I hope that although JDNC is run out of Sun, there can be some way to
encourage use of these libraries even if they compete with Sun-suggested
solutions. For example, there are a couple of toolkits to help with the
"GUI-freeze" problem, apart from SwingWorker (which is Sun-recommended):
Foxtrot (http://foxtrot.sourceforge.net/) and Spin
(http://spin.sourceforge.net). It would be difficult to have Sun/JDNC
endorse these without oversight of the projects, but on the other hand,
acting like they don't exist divides the community and prevents real best
practices from emerging.

Not sure what the best approach is to bring the Swing developer's
community around to taking more advantage of what is available, but it is
a noble goal.

Patrick

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