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Re: an XML editor

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Anonymous

Patrick,

I completely agree. In my experience the editors are either aimed at
technical folk (with all the horror that involves) or are not fully
featured i.e. do not support schema validation

For an end-user not interested in the structure, majorly concerned with
content not form, the current editors are sub-optimal.

The nearest I have come is in the integration of the WYSIWYG xml editor
XOpus with an XUpdate-aware XML database back-end such as eXist. Maybe
this is the option I will persue. Apache Lenya looks promising too, but
still an 'early doors' release.

The two XForms implementations I am considering to evaluate include
Formsplayer and chiba (open source) but this is currently at an early
stage. Formsplayer claims that you can edit/save xml, but the examples
are trivial and not conclusive!

Cheerio,
Nic.

Nic Hemley

Lothian NHS Webmaster & Developer

internal: 89240
external: 0131 536 9240
int'l: +00 44 131 536 9240
web: www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk

>>> pdoubleya@dev.java.net 16/11/2004 13:38:15 >>>
Hi Nicholas

I ask about the editing because I haven't yet found a "natural" way to

edit XML.

The tree approach works if it could be implemented, IMO, like MS Word's

outlining feature. I was working on a project of my own that used text

areas as the tree-node editor components, and that sort of worked, but

there was a lot of effort around resizing properly, and it's clear that

you are editing in this odd tree-thing--you can't bounce around the
document with the keyboard the way you can in a text document.

Text editors with XML support are OK, but you can type whatever you
want--they just notify you when the structure is invalid. I haven't
seen
one that enforces the indentation, either, so you have to re-indent
(manually or with a util) periodically. jEdit has this as an edit mode
+
plugins, and it works OK.

IMO, a JTree for editing ends up a little weird. As far as I can tell,

it is 'editable' in the sense that a directory-tree browser is
'editable'--it is meant to be used for editing a minimum number of
nodes, one at a time.

You could use forms that were bound to your XML tree structure, either

directly or via object mappings. That would give you the most
comfortable UI, possibly, depending on how complex the document is.
JDNC
might help you there as far as laying out the forms themselves in XML,

helping with the binding, etc. You might be able to map a certain XML
structure in your document to a specific XML-based layout in JDNC, and

instantiate the forms as the user navigates.

XForms sounds interesting, but haven't come across a complete, FOSS
implementation yet myself.

Others will probably chime in, just interested in the topic because I
have run into this many times, and haven't found a good solution yet.

Patrick

Nicholas Hemley wrote:
> Hello patrick,
>
> Am I right in thinking that the Swing approach would be in a tree
> format? Ideally, the user would be presented with a 'wordlike' box
for
> text so that they can choose formatting, etc. specific to each node.
> Some nodes may be HTML text, other nodes may be numeric. It will be
> varied...
>
> I am currently evaluating whether to go down the XForms or JDNC
route
> since as I understand it they offer slightly different approaches:
>
> a) XForms - server-side processing of XML; browser-based therefore
> restricted UI functionality (but I am reading a lot about RIA's so
there
> is hope...such as laszlo systems...)
> b) JDNC - a balance of client-side with J2EE connections i.e to
> databases/JNDI, etc.
>
> I guess the advantage of having a fully blown client is that you
could
> integrate it with other elements such as messaging/IRC...
>
> I am just keen to keep development effort to a minimum...
>
> Cheerio,
> Nic.
>
>
>>>>pdoubleya@dev.java.net 16/11/2004 13:10:50 >>>
>
> Nicholas
>
> One question--will the XML be edited as a text document, or as a
tree,
>
> or in forms associated with tree nodes? Those are the three forms
that
>
> I've seen most often.
>
> Just wondering what you are hoping JDNC to help you with.
>
>
> Regards
> Patrick
>
> Nicholas Hemley wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>I am looking to develop a proof of concept XML editor which will
>
> store
>
>>XML documents from the desktop to an XML database using a
>>servlet-centric J2EE environment.
>>
>>I was wondering if JDNC would be suitable for this task?
>>
>>I would be using the following software:
>>
>>eXist XML database (www.exist-db.org)
>>Subversion repository pure java library
>>Java Servlets (to receive the authored XML)
>>Relax NG schema
>>
>>Any pointers/feedback appreciated!
>>
>>Cheerio,
>>Nic.
>>
>>
>>Nic Hemley
>>
>>Lothian NHS Webmaster & Developer
>>
>>internal: 89240
>>external: 0131 536 9240
>>int'l: +00 44 131 536 9240
>>web: www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk
>>
>>
>>
>
>
**********************************************************************
>
>>The information contained in this message may be confidential or
>
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have
> received this message in error or there are any problems please
notify
> the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying
or
> alteration of this message is strictly forbidden.
>
>
**********************************************************************
>
>>
>>
>
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>
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>>
>
>
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Joshua Marinacci

It sounds like you need something that will accept WYSIWYG with
relatively generic features to a portion of your XML schema. I don't
think it would be too hard to create an XML import and export for the
standard JEditorPane. Then the user would type formatted text and you
could export it as some simple XHTMLish document, or document fragment
that you embed in the rest of your XML.

- J

Nicholas Hemley wrote:
> Patrick,
>
> I completely agree. In my experience the editors are either aimed at
> technical folk (with all the horror that involves) or are not fully
> featured i.e. do not support schema validation
>
> For an end-user not interested in the structure, majorly concerned with
> content not form, the current editors are sub-optimal.
>
> The nearest I have come is in the integration of the WYSIWYG xml editor
> XOpus with an XUpdate-aware XML database back-end such as eXist. Maybe
> this is the option I will persue. Apache Lenya looks promising too, but
> still an 'early doors' release.
>
> The two XForms implementations I am considering to evaluate include
> Formsplayer and chiba (open source) but this is currently at an early
> stage. Formsplayer claims that you can edit/save xml, but the examples
> are trivial and not conclusive!
>
> Cheerio,
> Nic.
>
> Nic Hemley
>
> Lothian NHS Webmaster & Developer
>
> internal: 89240
> external: 0131 536 9240
> int'l: +00 44 131 536 9240
> web: www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk
>
>
>>>>pdoubleya@dev.java.net 16/11/2004 13:38:15 >>>
>
> Hi Nicholas
>
> I ask about the editing because I haven't yet found a "natural" way to
>
> edit XML.
>
> The tree approach works if it could be implemented, IMO, like MS Word's
>
> outlining feature. I was working on a project of my own that used text
>
> areas as the tree-node editor components, and that sort of worked, but
>
> there was a lot of effort around resizing properly, and it's clear that
>
> you are editing in this odd tree-thing--you can't bounce around the
> document with the keyboard the way you can in a text document.
>
> Text editors with XML support are OK, but you can type whatever you
> want--they just notify you when the structure is invalid. I haven't
> seen
> one that enforces the indentation, either, so you have to re-indent
> (manually or with a util) periodically. jEdit has this as an edit mode
> +
> plugins, and it works OK.
>
> IMO, a JTree for editing ends up a little weird. As far as I can tell,
>
> it is 'editable' in the sense that a directory-tree browser is
> 'editable'--it is meant to be used for editing a minimum number of
> nodes, one at a time.
>
> You could use forms that were bound to your XML tree structure, either
>
> directly or via object mappings. That would give you the most
> comfortable UI, possibly, depending on how complex the document is.
> JDNC
> might help you there as far as laying out the forms themselves in XML,
>
> helping with the binding, etc. You might be able to map a certain XML
> structure in your document to a specific XML-based layout in JDNC, and
>
> instantiate the forms as the user navigates.
>
> XForms sounds interesting, but haven't come across a complete, FOSS
> implementation yet myself.
>
> Others will probably chime in, just interested in the topic because I
> have run into this many times, and haven't found a good solution yet.
>
>
> Patrick
>
> Nicholas Hemley wrote:
>
>>Hello patrick,
>>
>>Am I right in thinking that the Swing approach would be in a tree
>>format? Ideally, the user would be presented with a 'wordlike' box
>
> for
>
>>text so that they can choose formatting, etc. specific to each node.
>>Some nodes may be HTML text, other nodes may be numeric. It will be
>>varied...
>>
>>I am currently evaluating whether to go down the XForms or JDNC
>
> route
>
>>since as I understand it they offer slightly different approaches:
>>
>>a) XForms - server-side processing of XML; browser-based therefore
>>restricted UI functionality (but I am reading a lot about RIA's so
>
> there
>
>>is hope...such as laszlo systems...)
>>b) JDNC - a balance of client-side with J2EE connections i.e to
>>databases/JNDI, etc.
>>
>>I guess the advantage of having a fully blown client is that you
>
> could
>
>>integrate it with other elements such as messaging/IRC...
>>
>>I am just keen to keep development effort to a minimum...
>>
>>Cheerio,
>>Nic.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>pdoubleya@dev.java.net 16/11/2004 13:10:50 >>>
>>
>>Nicholas
>>
>>One question--will the XML be edited as a text document, or as a
>
> tree,
>
>>or in forms associated with tree nodes? Those are the three forms
>
> that
>
>>I've seen most often.
>>
>>Just wondering what you are hoping JDNC to help you with.
>>
>>
>>Regards
>>Patrick
>>
>>Nicholas Hemley wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>I am looking to develop a proof of concept XML editor which will
>>
>>store
>>
>>
>>>XML documents from the desktop to an XML database using a
>>>servlet-centric J2EE environment.
>>>
>>>I was wondering if JDNC would be suitable for this task?
>>>
>>>I would be using the following software:
>>>
>>>eXist XML database (www.exist-db.org)
>>>Subversion repository pure java library
>>>Java Servlets (to receive the authored XML)
>>>Relax NG schema
>>>
>>>Any pointers/feedback appreciated!
>>>
>>>Cheerio,
>>>Nic.
>>>
>>>
>>>Nic Hemley
>>>
>>>Lothian NHS Webmaster & Developer
>>>
>>>internal: 89240
>>>external: 0131 536 9240
>>>int'l: +00 44 131 536 9240
>>>web: www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> **********************************************************************
>
>>>The information contained in this message may be confidential or
>>
>>legally privileged and is intended for the addressee only, If you
>
> have
>
>>received this message in error or there are any problems please
>
> notify
>
>>the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying
>
> or
>
>>alteration of this message is strictly forbidden.
>>
>>
>
> **********************************************************************
>
>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
>>For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> **********************************************************************
>
>>The information contained in this message may be confidential or
>
> legally privileged and is intended for the addressee only, If you have
> received this message in error or there are any problems please notify
> the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or
> alteration of this message is strictly forbidden.
>
> **********************************************************************
>
>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
>>For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: jdnc-unsubscribe@jdnc.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail: jdnc-help@jdnc.dev.java.net
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>
>
> **********************************************************************
> The information contained in this message may be confidential or legally privileged and is intended for the addressee only, If you have received this message in error or there are any problems please notify the originator immediately. The unauthorised use, disclosure, copying or alteration of this message is strictly forbidden.
> **********************************************************************
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