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What the heck ?

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virtualcall
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Joined: 2004-07-16
Points: 0

Hi,

If you have been at https://lg3d-core.dev.java.net/ you'll have noticed the planned features are Programmable shaders
Spatialized audio
Physics simulation
Collision detection
Particle systems

The thing is https://j3d-core-utils.dev.java.net/ lists very different planned enhancements:
JOAL-based audio engine
Character Animation utility
Terrain utility
Collision Avoidance utility
CSG (geometry boolean operators) utility
Loaders

So what should we expect ? How come these two groups plan different features ?

There is a good deal of code on J3d.org that could nicely fill the gaps here and provide a ready to be used new version of Java3d shortly.

By the way, as I posted several monthes back on the now nearly defunct java3D guenuine mailing list, there are other features that would be cool (http://archives.java.sun.com/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0307&L=java3d-interest&P=R...):
command line properties listing
asynchronous renderer
additional boundings
benchmarking api
overlays
networking layer (socket or RMI)

Again, most of this has already been developped by nice people from some place or another. Asking them would probably save a lot of time and efforts while at the same time revive old useful code and strenghten the community.

Several loaders and devices repositories should be considered.

My two cents.

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paulby
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Joined: 2003-06-13
Points: 0

The list of things on the Java3D project site

JOAL-based audio engine
Character Animation utility
Terrain utility
Collision Avoidance utility
CSG (geometry boolean operators) utility
Loaders

Are a list of suggestions for community projects, for those who want to start hacking but don't want to delve into the guts of Java3D core.

Also most of the features listed on the lg3d site

Physics simulation
Collision detection
Particle systems

are things that will/have been be built on top of the Java 3D api as utilities and don't effect the core and as you say a lot of work has already be done in these areas and we would be very interested in integrating it into lg3d. We have no desire to reinvent everything ourselves !

There are two projects which do affect the core and that is the JOAL sound renderer (the sound renderer is already modular so this should be a relatively easy project, anyone out there fancy taking it on ?) and the addition of shaders to Java 3D.

The Java 3D team will initially be focused on adding Shaders and as part of this forming the JSR for Java 3D 1.4.

As for the other projects you suggested they all sound very intersting and we are certainly open to all of them. All the j3d.org code is utilities built on top of the Java 3D API, we are very keen to understand which of these utilities the community would like bundled with the Java 3D release and which should remain seperate downloads. The code would then have to be added to java3d on java.net with a JCA agreement in place with the author.

So lets start the discussion, what utilities (or core features) would people like to see included in Java 3D 1.4 and onwards ?

jcouch
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Joined: 2006-02-17
Points: 0

[grumble... silly lists from java.net have stopped talking to this one. I sent a nice long reply and it just vanished]

The j3d.org utilities are licensed under the LGPL. As such, there is no need to sign anything if you wish to include it in the various Java3D projects (I would assume under the utils area). So long as you don't change the license on it, you are free to do with it as you like - including taking it and placing it into a different repository.

On general principle, I would not be interested in signing over my copyrights to Sun, as is required by the JCA. The existing license is sufficient for anyone that wishes to use and/or redistribute the code. And, depending on which code you take from j3d.org, it may not be mine either. There's at least a dozen different contributors over time that have put code in there, and I really don't know how to contact at least a few of them anymore. Most of them were students that were leaving uni and handed me code to put in there as they were no longer going to have an active web space (and hence email address) to keep it on.

paulby
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Joined: 2003-06-13
Points: 0

The JCA does not sign your copyright over to Sun, you share it with Sun (ie you still maintain copyright). The most important feature of the JCA is that it also has a patent clause which prevents people from submitting patented work and the sueing later for patent infringement. The last thing we want is a SCO type situation.

Let's discuss what parts of the j3d.org code base people would like to see shipped with Java 3D and then we can try and figure out what options we have.

kcr
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Joined: 2004-03-17
Points: 0

Without a JCA, the LGPL-licensed j3d.org utilities would need to be in a separate, non-Sun-owned java.net project, but there is another distribution option we could consider. Since they are LGPL, we could compile the source and distribute the binary .jar file(s) along with j3d-core and j3d-core-utils.

-- Kevin