Skip to main content

Avalon-CounterStrike Please

9 replies [Last post]
Anonymous

As seen on the MS C9 Dev video posted here, Microsoft has made a browser for 3d web content, including shopping carts, ect...

http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=34528

I couldn't help but exclaim that this could be implemented in the cross platform setting with JAI, and Java3d, with the XML UI and the code behind in Java instead of C#.
You see, I use Java, and Java3d, and not C# or any other MS programming language, hence I post here in the lg3d forums.

http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=34530

So, could somebody bump this to the Sun dev team please, to try to make a Java implementation of "JAML" so MS can't gloat about 3d XML web content for too long whilst I can not use it on my linux machine.

Thanks so much, you guys are the best.

Reply viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mark McKay

java3d-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:

>So basically I'm asking for a declarative XML based declarative language that generates java and java3d code for possible web content, and code behind in Java instead of C#, in order to make rich client web content with java instead of C#.
>
>
Don't SVG and VRML/X3D cover this? I've been using these two to build
GUIs for a while now.

Also, let me plug my open sourced SVG player:
http://svgsalamander.dev.java.net. It will display and animate most SVG
content. It doesn't handle scripting at the moment, but that's planned
for the future.

Mark McKay

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: interest-unsubscribe@java3d.dev.java.net
For additional commands, e-mail: interest-help@java3d.dev.java.net

Gilson Laurent

Hello

> So, could somebody bump this to the Sun dev team please, to try to make a
> Java implementation of "JAML" so MS can't gloat about 3d XML web content
> for too long whilst I can not use it on my linux machine.

If M$ publishs the exact specifications they were using for this, it would be
"easy". But M$ NEVER publishs the exact and correct specifications. Hacking
that one will be a tough task.

cu

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: interest-unsubscribe@java3d.dev.java.net
For additional commands, e-mail: interest-help@java3d.dev.java.net

Anonymous

Hi,

bunk the MS implementation, the code behind is C# which is abstracted over DirectX with Managed DX anyway so that wouldn't work.

I am asking if the JDev team could make a Java implementation of XML UI for 3d and 2d, with the java language as the code behind.

This way us people that use linux, and java could code 3d shopping carts and other rich 2d and 3d web content much like the avalon demo.

I have been learning Java3d this past year with the addison wesley/Sun Book series, and The Java 3d API Specification and also "Java Media API's" from Sams. I have been using Java for about 6 years now, and I really don't want to bend over for M$ to use C# so I can make 3d XML based UI for network content, if that's not absolutely necessary.

So basically I'm asking for a declarative XML based declarative language that generates java and java3d code for possible web content, and code behind in Java instead of C#, in order to make rich client web content with java instead of C#.

I know XMas is over, but this one came in late.

Anonymous

definately don't use the MS XML specifications verbatim though, I'd totally rather they didn't. I'm sure others would agree.

Anonymous

I don't want something compatible with their XML verbatim, I just want something that does the same thing with Java so everybody on every PC platform can enjoy the same browsing experience.

aces
Offline
Joined: 2003-07-17

I guess I miss the point, but "XML of 3D" is not already the X3D theme ?
Anyway I think a 3D web content may need a software renderer, due the lack of good quality 3D hardware. Even well wrote 3D software suffers a lot with issues not related with their application itself but the limited user hardware. I guess a interface with auto switch HW/SW renderer, as seems in some VRML viewers can help a lot here.

Anonymous

Anyway I think a 3D web content may need a software renderer, due the lack of good quality 3D hardware

Doesn't java3d take care of that for you?

I've not looked at hardware/software switches for J3d, but from what I've learned so far, you just code the 3d virtual universe and the runtime takes care of the rest.

DirectX and managed DX through C# works in the same way, except it only works with windows.
If there is a paradigm there, I'd assume that's the problem of the java3d runtime, not the end user.

I would just hate to see a situation where 3d web or network interfaces with XAML become a trend and everybody on any other platform than MS Windows is essentially forced into using vmware, virtual PC or some other software emulator to view the content. That would suck. Then everybody would be forced into coding it with C# instead of java.

I originally thought Avalon and XAML/C# were strictly for PC GUI/data abstraction like Doc/View was in MFC, but with this new video they posted, it really does look like it's for the web somehow.

The guy in the video says something to the effect that it would be great for online shopping carts, when he showed his XBox game shopping example. That looks like a web interface app to me.

Now, granted, companies like Play Online and others have implemented PC based shopping carts that purchase content through the web like XBox does from within the console, but it looked more like there was an actual "avalon browser", plus Joe Beda, who I guess now works at google, in another C9 video, said there actually was an "avalon web browser" to be released.

So this appears to be a system where rich 3d and 2d content is going to be displayed in some new browser with this XML based language interface and a C# code backend which is rendered on client machines in sort of the same way applets are, with security, ect...

That's what it looks like to me.

I don't see why a rich web browser couldn't be implemented with java for a java language interface as well though. I would like to work on such a project, but right now I'm really busy with a couple major projects, and I think it would be better if it came from Sun rather than the open source community, because it could require some special optimizations for the XML application code to be converted to java before it's JIT'd by the compiler.

Plus I think the Sun team would be in a better position to get the goods on what the MS avalon browser is definitively and make a similar but equal rich content browser for the rest of us.

It wouldn't do much good to guess and make something on assumptions then have it be a disaster because it doesn't accomplish the same types of things you can do with the windows version as far as presenting rich web content.

The reason I think they are making a browser for these apps is, A. the joe beda interview where he stated something about an "avalon browser". Perhaps somebody can get a hold of him and ask now that he works for google. B. The XBox game example from the video I linked where the guy says it's an online shopping cart.

And finally

C. If this isn't a new protocol and those guys at MS think the rich browser XAML thing for shopping carts is going to work where there's no set service port like HTTP, they're dreaming.

If they intend companies to make shopping carts with this where it's a non-internet service, non-container browsable, client desktop application, it will be chaos.
That would mean that the remote server app could be on any arbitrary port to accept data from the avalon desktop app, which will set off all sorts of firewall alerts people will cut the connection on.

That would be truly dumb, I think they have the good sense to encapsulate it in a browser, though it hasn't been explicitly shown in a video yet.

Matthew Hilliard

I just like snickering at his typing malformed XML despite using a tool to
write proper XML. Leave it to MS to write a parser that promotes poor
syntax and then demo it.
A pat on the back to anyone who can spot it!

This really looks like the Microsoft equivalent of X3D, only bastardized to
behave more like SOAP (and integrate with their other products, I'm
sure). There are already a number of tools for working in X3D on many
different platforms--including Java (Check out Justin and Alan's
Xj3D). They key difference being X3D is available now and not 2006. More
info here: http://www.web3d.org/applications/tools/

This Avalon extension will catch on because its Microsoft--much like the
way IE-only tags and ActiveX do in web browsers, but its still going to
fall short of "all that".
Bear in mind this stuff is not really web-agnostic, despite Microsoft
telling you it is--its more akin to having an ActiveX plugin that only runs
on versions of Windows that have been upgraded or shipped with Avalon.
It didn't work very will with .Net. There are a few .Net-centric sites out
there, but they are few, far between, and relatively unimpressive after
everything is said and done.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: interest-unsubscribe@java3d.dev.java.net
For additional commands, e-mail: interest-help@java3d.dev.java.net

Anonymous

Is there a "... from the source" addison wesley/Sun book that covers these topics? X3D, ect...?

Any titles would be much appreciated, I don't like reading docs on the screen if I can help it.

I found a helpful link, I had no idea this already existed.

http://www.web3d.org/x3d/applications/xj3d/

Message was edited by: Beer