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Stereoscopic problem

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bumpert
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Joined: 2004-10-14

Hi, i have an 3d applet that need stereoscopic. I can do stereoscopic with all others programs in C so it's not an hardware problem. I start my applet, i can see stereoscopic, but the gap between the eyes are too big. I found this only post, http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?messageID=3929235 , that could have the solution for me but that don't seems to work.

Any idea?

thx a lot

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Chet Urata

Greetings, Bumpert,

I actually don't have a decent snippet to send since it is fairly
spread out, but I really didn't do anything special, from what I
remember. I just utilized the information that I forwarded to you.

My apologies, but hopefully someone with far more knowledge on this
subject than I will chime in.

Best of luck!

c h e t !

--- java3d-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:

> thx a lot for your reply, i made somes others tests by playing with
> the code of David Grace and with javafun without succesfull
> settings...
>
> Maybe it's not this part of code that didn't work for me, maybe it's
> something with the Universe or with the GraphicsConfigurations, could
> you send me a working example (or point me on a little program that
> work)? Cause i'm not able to have example to show that stereoscopic
> work with Java3D.
>
> thx a lot for help
> ---
> [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
>
>

>
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bumpert
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Joined: 2004-10-14

Thx a lot, could i ask you something else? Could you check the example i've done and tell me if it's working for you? And if not, if you could check into the source code what i miss?

thx a lot for help :)

Chet Urata

My apologies once again. I no longer work near my client, who is the
keeper of the glasses. However, perhaps someone else might be able to
assist.

I regret that I could not have been of some help. Best of luck,
Bumpert.

c h e t !

--- java3d-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:

> Thx a lot, could i ask you something else? Could you check the
> example i've done and tell me if it's working for you? And if not, if
> you could check into the source code what i miss?
>
> thx a lot for help :)
> ---
> [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
>
>

>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: interest-unsubscribe@java3d.dev.java.net
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>
>

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bumpert
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Joined: 2004-10-14

No problem, thx a lot for your help :)

> My apologies once again. I no longer work near my
> client, who is the
> keeper of the glasses. However, perhaps someone else
> might be able to
> assist.
>
> I regret that I could not have been of some help.
> elp. Best of luck,
> Bumpert.
>
> c h e t !
>
> --- java3d-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
> > Thx a lot, could i ask you something else? Could
> you check the
> > example i've done and tell me if it's working for
> you? And if not, if
> > you could check into the source code what i miss?
> >
> > thx a lot for help :)
> > ---
> > [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
> >
> >
> http://www.javadesktop.org/forums/thread.jspa?messageI
> D=119307𝈋
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
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> interest-help@java3d.dev.java.net
> >
> >
>
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Chet Urata

Greetings, Bumpert,

I found this thread:
http://www.javadesktop.org/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=55&threadID=6431&m...

The relevant part from David Grace is as follows:

> to do to make it work was change the default eye separation using
> physicalBody.setLeftEyePosition() and
> physicalBody.setRightEyePosition(). I chose a value of (-0.005, 0, 0)
> and (0.005, 0, 0) respectively.

You can get the PhysicalBody from javax.media.j3d.View, which you can
get from Canvas3D.

Good luck!

c h e t !

--- java3d-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:

> Hi, i have an 3d applet that need stereoscopic. I can do stereoscopic
> with all others programs in C so it's not an hardware problem. I
> start my applet, i can see stereoscopic, but the gap between the eyes
> are too big. I found this only post,
> http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?messageID=3929235 , that could
> have the solution for me but that don't seems to work.
>
> Any idea?
>
> thx a lot
> ---
> [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
>
>

>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: interest-unsubscribe@java3d.dev.java.net
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>
>

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Chet Urata

Whoops, I didn't fully check that link you sent the first time. I
don't seem to realize I shouldn't answer after staying up all night.

Anyway, sorry Bumpert, but what I mentioned did work for us. I made
the separation variable via the GUI so the user could tinker with it.

c h e t !

--- Chet Urata wrote:

> Greetings, Bumpert,
>
> I found this thread:
>
http://www.javadesktop.org/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=55&threadID=6431&m...
>
> The relevant part from David Grace is as follows:
>
> > to do to make it work was change the default eye separation using
> > physicalBody.setLeftEyePosition() and
> > physicalBody.setRightEyePosition(). I chose a value of (-0.005, 0,
> 0)
> > and (0.005, 0, 0) respectively.
>
> You can get the PhysicalBody from javax.media.j3d.View, which you can
> get from Canvas3D.
>
> Good luck!
>
> c h e t !
>
> --- java3d-interest@javadesktop.org wrote:
>
> > Hi, i have an 3d applet that need stereoscopic. I can do
> stereoscopic
> > with all others programs in C so it's not an hardware problem. I
> > start my applet, i can see stereoscopic, but the gap between the
> eyes
> > are too big. I found this only post,
> > http://forum.java.sun.com/thread.jspa?messageID=3929235 , that
> could
> > have the solution for me but that don't seems to work.
> >
> > Any idea?
> >
> > thx a lot
> > ---
> > [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
> >
> >
>

> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: interest-unsubscribe@java3d.dev.java.net
> > For additional commands, e-mail: interest-help@java3d.dev.java.net
> >
> >
>
>
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>
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bumpert
Offline
Joined: 2004-10-14

thx a lot for your reply, i made somes others tests by playing with the code of David Grace and with javafun without succesfull settings...

Maybe it's not this part of code that didn't work for me, maybe it's something with the Universe or with the GraphicsConfigurations, could you send me a working example (or point me on a little program that work)? Cause i'm not able to have example to show that stereoscopic work with Java3D.

thx a lot for help

bumpert
Offline
Joined: 2004-10-14

I took the GearBox example and add what i need to have stereoscopic. That did the same thing, could someone would like to test it and tell me if it's ok for you? or look at the code and tell me what is wrong?

http://www.edonix.com/public/j3d/stereoscopic/GearBox.zip

Mark Hood

> Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:42:04 EDT
> [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
>
> I took the GearBox example and add what i need to have
> stereoscopic. That did the same thing, could someone would like to
> test it and tell me if it's ok for you? or look at the code and tell
> me what is wrong?

You don't need to add anything to the example programs to view them in
stereo with shutter glasses. They all use SimpleUniverse, so that
form of stereo is supported "out-of-the-box."

Try:

java -Dj3d.stereo=REQUIRED GearBox

If the stereo separation seems wrong in your app, and you're not doing
VR and you don't care about physical coordinates, then modifying the
eye separation in PhysicalBody can be an effective workaround.

If you do care about physical coordinates, then you want to use your
own measured inter-pupilary distance as the eye separation in
PhysicalBody (the default is good enough for average people though).
You'll then have to modify the ViewPlatform and/or Screen scaling, its
distance to the object of interest, and the Vworld scale of your
content to match the effect you want to achieve.

Basically, you want to model the nominal physical locations of your
eyes with respect to the screen, and have the objects of interest in
your virtual world floating around near the plane of your screen at an
appropriate scale.

-- Mark Hood

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bumpert
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Joined: 2004-10-14

First thank for your reply.

I did what you tell. Just take the GearBox example with nothing modified in it and start it like you said, but without a big stereoscopic effect, i could said without effect.

I tried this with an NVidia GeForce FX 5900XT with the driver 7.1.8.9 and i need to install another driver for the stereoscopic (7.1.8.9 too). My glasses are "i-glasses 3D pro svga" ( http://www.i-glassesstore.com/iglassespc-3d.html ).

I really don't know what to do. On all the informations i found, everybody said that it's easy but i never be able to see anything made in Java3D do stereoscopic. But i could easily see the stereoscopic effect with the NVidia example or others C/C++ programs :(

Any suggestion? What is the graphic card and glasses you use to see it?
Thx a lot for help

> > Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:42:04 EDT
> > [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
> >
> > I took the GearBox example and add what i need to
> have
> > stereoscopic. That did the same thing, could
> someone would like to
> > test it and tell me if it's ok for you? or look at
> the code and tell
> > me what is wrong?
>
> You don't need to add anything to the example
> programs to view them in
> stereo with shutter glasses. They all use
> SimpleUniverse, so that
> form of stereo is supported "out-of-the-box."
>
> Try:
>
> java -Dj3d.stereo=REQUIRED GearBox
>
> If the stereo separation seems wrong in your app, and
> you're not doing
> VR and you don't care about physical coordinates,
> then modifying the
> eye separation in PhysicalBody can be an effective
> workaround.
>
> If you do care about physical coordinates, then you
> want to use your
> own measured inter-pupilary distance as the eye
> separation in
> PhysicalBody (the default is good enough for average
> people though).
> You'll then have to modify the ViewPlatform and/or
> Screen scaling, its
> distance to the object of interest, and the Vworld
> scale of your
> content to match the effect you want to achieve.
>
> Basically, you want to model the nominal physical
> locations of your
> eyes with respect to the screen, and have the objects
> of interest in
> your virtual world floating around near the plane of
> your screen at an
> appropriate scale.
>
> -- Mark Hood
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> interest-unsubscribe@java3d.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> interest-help@java3d.dev.java.net

Mark Hood

> Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2005 08:43:48 EDT
> [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
>
> I tried this with an NVidia GeForce FX 5900XT with the driver
> 7.1.8.9 and i need to install another driver for the stereoscopic
> (7.1.8.9 too). My glasses are "i-glasses 3D pro svga" (
> http://www.i-glassesstore.com/iglassespc-3d.html ).

Oh! That's a $1200 head-mounted display (HMD), not the standard LCD
shutter glasses I thought you were using. That's a totally different
story, and considerably more complicated.

First though, it's possible that the stereo functionality in your card
is too Nvidia-specific to run with the standard OpenGL calls that Java
3D makes. Standard OpenGL support requires twice the frame buffer
resources -- separate color and depth buffers for each eye. Typically
these are only available on high-end professional video cards; if
these resources are not available, then there are tricks that you can
do with proprietary APIs that Java 3D won't be able to access.
Usually if you have to download special Nvidia software or drivers to
enable stereo for a demo or a game you'll find that it won't work in
Java 3D.

Are you getting any exceptions when running GearBox with
j3d.stereo=REQUIRED? If not, then you've successfully configured a
stereo canvas and enabled stereo on that canvas. Is there any stereo
separation at all, or just not enough? It may be sufficient to just
munge the default value of the eye separation in the PhysicalBody.

The following web site is an excellent resource for figuring out what
your stereo hardware is actually doing and what it's compatible with:

http://www.stereographics.com/support/body_support.html

Second, are you planning on using head tracking and doing VR with this
device? If so, you need throw a big switch and set the View policy to
View.HMD_VIEW (default is SCREEN_VIEW) and do a bunch of measurement
and calibration which I won't address here. You *should* be able to
view a simple non-tracked stereo image through an HMD with the
standard View.SCREEN_VIEW in effect, though I've never tried this.

HMDs come in two types -- single channel and dual channel. Dual
channel devices need two video feeds, one for the right eye and one
for the left. A single channel device takes a field-sequential stereo
signal and splits them out to the two eyes by itself.

If yours is the latter, then setup should be easy -- you just create a
standard stereo canvas and enable stereo for that canvas. This is
what the j3d.stereo property does for SimpleUniverse apps. That
apparently isn't working for you, so you may need two separate video
streams.

Some Nvidia hardware supports what they call "Twin View" for passive
stereo -- this will take the output of a screen with stereo canvases
and split it into two streams at the back end for you. This is an
Nvidia-specific configuration that you need to set up through its
driver interface, but it should then be transparent to application
frameworks such as Java 3D.

If Twin View is unavailable and you've got a 2 channel HMD, you'll
have to allocate two separate monoscopic canvases and set monoscopic
view policices for them before adding each of them to the View. This
should also work even if you don't have standard OpenGL stereo
capability.

Call Canvas3D.setMonoscopicViewPolicy(View.LEFT_EYE_VIEW) for the left
eye canvas and Canvas3D.setMonoscopicViewPolicy(View.RIGHT_EYE_VIEW)
for the right eye canvas. DO NOT enable stereo for these canvases.
Depending upon your hardware and the drivers, you'll probably have to
put these canvases on separate screens, and feed the video output of
each screen into the HMD.

Good luck -- Mark Hood

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bumpert
Offline
Joined: 2004-10-14

Hi,
first thank a lot for your reply. I'm not an expert in this domain, so i'm not sure that i have understand all the stuffs you said, but i'll try to reply the best i can.

> Oh! That's a $1200 head-mounted display (HMD), not the
> standard LCD shutter glasses I thought you were using.
> That's a totally different story, and considerably more
> complicated.

Sorry, it's my fault. I didn't know it have a big difference, cause it's not me that bought theses glasses.

> First though, it's possible that the stereo
> functionality in your card is too Nvidia-specific to run
> with the standard OpenGL calls that Java 3D makes.

If i use the example i gave with my code modification, i'm able to have the gearbox example separate. It's like having two time the same things, but the gap is too high to give a good effect and i'm not able to solve this. But maybe my card is too nvidia specific, cause i'm not able to have stereoscopic with only the j3D parameter without modification to the code.

> Standard OpenGL support requires twice the frame buffer
> resources -- separate color and depth buffers for each
> eye. Typically these are only available on high-end
> professional video cards;

I saw on this page: http://www.stereographics.com/support/boards/graphics_card_query.asp that only Quadro seems to be able to have stereoscopic with Nvidia card. If a buy one, is that will solve my problem? Will i be able to run a java3d application with OpenGL and have stereoscopic with my glasses?

> if these resources are not available, then there are
> tricks that you can do with proprietary APIs that Java
> 3D won't be able to access.

Not sure to understand this part. I could find some API to do what i want?

> Usually if you have to download special Nvidia software
> or drivers to enable stereo for a demo or a game you'll
> find that it won't work in Java 3D.

It's what i've done, so maybe it's the problem i have.

> Are you getting any exceptions when running GearBox with
> j3d.stereo=REQUIRED? If not, then you've successfully
> configured a stereo canvas and enabled stereo on that
> canvas. Is there any stereo separation at all, or just
> not enough?

I don't have any exception, but i don't see any separation. What does that mean?

> It may be sufficient to just munge the default value of > the eye separation in the PhysicalBody

I tried this with my problem on my modified example, but i'll try this with the unmodified gearbox example with the j3d param to see if it's work. I'll give you feedback.

> The following web site is an excellent resource for
> figuring out what your stereo hardware is actually doing
> and what it's compatible with:

I found on this website, like i said before that Quadro seems to be able to have stereoscopic. My video card isn't listed here. I saw on somes nvidia pdfs files that Quadro have this feature: OpenGL stereo support for resolutions up to 3840x2400 AND OpenGL quad-buffered stereo (3-pin sync connector). My card didn't have this listed, id this two things are what i need to be able to have stereoscopic succesfull?

> Second, are you planning on using head tracking and
> doing VR with this device? If so, you need throw a big
> switch and set the View policy to View.HMD_VIEW (default
> is SCREEN_VIEW) and do a bunch of measurement and
> calibration which I won't address here. You *should* be
> able to view a simple non-tracked stereo image through
> an HMD with the standard View.SCREEN_VIEW in effect,
> though I've never tried this

We already do some head tracking with another technlogies without modifying anything with this. But i'll check what's the difference, thanks.

> HMDs come in two types -- single channel and dual
> channel. Dual channel devices need two video feeds, one
> for the right eye and one for the left. A single channel
> device takes a field-sequential stereo
> signal and splits them out to the two eyes by itself.

It's not written in the specs and the guy who bought it don't know!!!!!!! So i'll give a check.

thx a lot for your help. I hope my english is understandable :)

bumpert
Offline
Joined: 2004-10-14

I made some others tests.

I got it. I need the J3D param, i need to separate the eye with the physical body and i need to put my applet into exclusive mode. I also find a shortcut for the stereoscopic nivida driver that wasn't in the doc that help me minimize the gap.

Thx a lot, but now i have one problem and one question.

My problem is that i lose my keyboard. I totaly lose my keyboard when i go into stereoscopic mode. Any idea?

My question is that the gap is too big when i start my application, i need to play with nividia shortcut to be able to put it right, is there a way to preset this so the user won't have to do this each time it use my application?

Another time, thanks a lot!!!

David Grace

Hi,

What do you mean 'put my applet into exclusive mode.' I think if you put
a Window fullscreen you lose keyboard input, you might need to extend
Frame instead.

Dave.

-----Original Message-----
From: java3d-interest@javadesktop.org
[mailto:java3d-interest@javadesktop.org]
Sent: Tuesday, 18 October 2005 3:37 AM
To: interest@java3d.dev.java.net
Subject: Re: Stereoscopic problem

I made some others tests.

I got it. I need the J3D param, i need to separate the eye with the
physical body and i need to put my applet into exclusive mode. I also
find a shortcut for the stereoscopic nivida driver that wasn't in the
doc that help me minimize the gap.

Thx a lot, but now i have one problem and one question.

My problem is that i lose my keyboard. I totaly lose my keyboard when i
go into stereoscopic mode. Any idea?

My question is that the gap is too big when i start my application, i
need to play with nividia shortcut to be able to put it right, is there
a way to preset this so the user won't have to do this each time it use
my application?

Another time, thanks a lot!!!
---
[Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]

http://www.javadesktop.org/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=119987&#119987

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bumpert
Offline
Joined: 2004-10-14

Sorry, i simply add my Canvas3D into a JFrame instead of the JApplet. Like this:

JFrame stereoWindo = new JFrame();
stereoWindo.add(canvas3D);
stereoWindo.setUndecorated(true);
screenDevice.setFullScreenWindow(stereoWindo);

If i don't do this, the stereoscopic don't work. But i losing the keyboard after 1-2 minutes. It's very strange.

thx for your reply

Mark Hood

> Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:58:31 EDT
> [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
>
> Sorry, i simply add my Canvas3D into a JFrame instead of the
> JApplet. Like this:
>
> JFrame stereoWindo = new JFrame();
> stereoWindo.add(canvas3D);
> stereoWindo.setUndecorated(true);
> screenDevice.setFullScreenWindow(stereoWindo);
>
> If i don't do this, the stereoscopic don't work. But i losing the
> keyboard after 1-2 minutes. It's very strange.

Undecorated windows have some weird focus behavior -- probably to make
them work for splash screens.

Try calling setFocusable(true) on your canvas before you add it to its
container.

-- Mark Hood

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bumpert
Offline
Joined: 2004-10-14

Thx for your reply. That seems to work and i saw, before adding this, that my keyboard wasn't totaly lost, but very hard to use. Now it's ok :)

So to finish this thread. Is somebody could give me a little hint on how preset the gap between the two images that make the stereoscopic view? I can now manually bring them closer without the bringing together being done by long distance, therefore after some blows I am able to have a correct gap for the effect of stereoscopy, but I must make this process each time. I would like that all this stuff is configured automatically. Does somebody have a solution?

Thx a lot to all for your help

> > Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 16:58:31 EDT
> > [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
> >
> > Sorry, i simply add my Canvas3D into a JFrame
> instead of the
> > JApplet. Like this:
> >
> > JFrame stereoWindo = new JFrame();
> > stereoWindo.add(canvas3D);
> > stereoWindo.setUndecorated(true);
> > screenDevice.setFullScreenWindow(stereoWindo);
> >
> > If i don't do this, the stereoscopic don't work.
> But i losing the
> > keyboard after 1-2 minutes. It's very strange.
>
> Undecorated windows have some weird focus behavior --
> probably to make
> them work for splash screens.
>
> Try calling setFocusable(true) on your canvas before
> you add it to its
> container.
>
> -- Mark Hood
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> interest-unsubscribe@java3d.dev.java.net
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> interest-help@java3d.dev.java.net

Mark Hood

> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:47:55 EDT
> [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
>
> Thx for your reply. That seems to work and i saw, before adding
> this, that my keyboard wasn't totaly lost, but very hard to use. Now
> it's ok :)

Glad setFocusable() worked. The keyboard focus model totally changed
from JDK 1.3 to 1.4 and who knows what it does in 1.5 :)

> So to finish this thread. Is somebody could give me a little hint on
> how preset the gap between the two images that make the stereoscopic
> view? I can now manually bring them closer without the bringing
> together being done by long distance, therefore after some blows I
> am able to have a correct gap for the effect of stereoscopy, but I
> must make this process each time. I would like that all this stuff
> is configured automatically. Does somebody have a solution?

It sounds like you're adjusting the stereo separation outside of Java
3D. What you want is possible to do within Java 3D if you use a
high-end graphics card that supports standard OpenGL stereo
functionality, like a Quadro.

Unfortunately Quadros are pretty expensive. On the other hand, you've
got yourself a nice head-mounted display -- why not get a fully
capable graphics card to go along with it?

-- Mark Hood

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bumpert
Offline
Joined: 2004-10-14

Thx for the answer.

yes i set the separation with the nvidia drivers instead of the Java3D. I know that Quadro is expensive, i'll check this solution. But is there a way with my cheaper card? And with a Quadro, what can i do to solve my problem?

Mark Hood

> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:15:38 EDT
> [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
>
> yes i set the separation with the nvidia drivers instead of the
> Java3D. I know that Quadro is expensive, i'll check this
> solution. But is there a way with my cheaper card? And with a
> Quadro, what can i do to solve my problem?

I've never worked with stereoscopy except through the standard OpenGL
API and the Java 3D API, so I can't advise you on the Nvidia solution.

With Java 3D you would set the stereo separation through the the
PhysicalBody component of the View. Once you find the optimum setting
for your app you can just set it as the default when you start your
app and it should work fine for average people.

-- Mark Hood

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bumpert
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Joined: 2004-10-14

Ok i already tried this before without any succesfull results, but it wasn't able to have the stereoscopic view that work. I'll give another try. But if i understand, this piece of code will only work with a Quadro graphic card?

thx a lot for your help :)

Mark Hood

> Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 08:34:05 EDT
> [Message sent by forum member 'bumpert' (bumpert)]
>
> Ok i already tried this before without any succesfull results, but
> it wasn't able to have the stereoscopic view that work. I'll give
> another try. But if i understand, this piece of code will only work
> with a Quadro graphic card?

Quadro definitely supports OpenGL and Java 3D stereo, but other cards
may work as well. The Stereographics web site is the best I've found
for determining card/driver/OS support for the standard OpenGL stereo
API. They also provide tools you can download to test your hardware
and configuration.

-- Mark Hood

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bumpert
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Joined: 2004-10-14

Thx a lot for your help :)