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Advantages of Java on the Desktop. Part II... Lets go for it...

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janunezc
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Joined: 2003-06-11

Hi every body,

I have read the answers given at the previous topic regarding advantages of Java on the Desktop.

I understand Java is more secure, safe, and platform independent language.. (Which is a pretty good advantage)

But I still think there is a pretty good set functionality in MS Visual Basic (VBA, VB6, VB.Net) that is inherent to the desktop arena such as Web Components, Pivot Table, Pivot Chart and so on... that I have come with a great(maybe ridiculous) idea...

Why not to develop such functionality as open standard objects in Open Source fashion... in Java...?

I am not so experienced to drive such project, but, I know there is experienced people here. I also know that the best way to learn is to engage into a challenging project. Like this... so what do you think or recommend?

Do you think we may build some team to develop such functionality rev.1 for us as a community of developers?

Of course I do not work for Sun... (which is not a bad idea after all) but in a semiconductors multinational company in Costa Rica, Central America so do not think odd of me... It is really and sincerely an open source initiative...

Any ideas on where to start? (or even if it would be sane to start?)

Thks.

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Anonymous

Hi Jose,

I think you have made a very interesting and entirely possible
proposal!

Java provides the JavaBeans framework which is oriented especially
towards creating components that can used and configured within
an IDE, but I think there is much more potential for components
in Java.

To be successful, a Java component needs to work within a rich
extensible component framework; it needs to be able to provide
different kinds of service (view/edit some "content", implement one
or more commands (via a standard interface) for some content,
provide an abstract content/container model for different kinds
of data source, extend a user interface incrementally, and so on).

We are designing and building a component framework along
these lines in the Glow project (http://groupware.openoffice.org/glow).
The main goal of the Glow project is to deliver a complete open-source
standards-based groupware client (with migration support for
some proprietary servers like MS Exchange and Lotus Notes),
but we also want to help other groups to contribute to Glow
and the best way to do this is to provide a container framework
that allows independent groups to develop open-source or
even commercial extension components.

Please drop by our web-site, follow-up to this mail thread
or post a mail on the OpenOffice.org groupware mailing list
if you are interested in contributing to this effort to
build a component framework or to build groupware components
in Java.

Colm.

janunezc
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Joined: 2003-06-11

Thanks for the invitation. I will follow it up.

By the way, I have always wonder why the Open Office project was not entirely developed in JAVA?

Do you have some answer on this.

I mean, it is sponsored by SUN and Java is good for desktop apps, so why not to build Open Office in JAVA?

I have been looking for Desktop applications built in JAVA and did not find that much, so I have been asking myself why does not Sun build most of its software in Java...

in fact there were a Java internet browser that was distributed as an executable instead of using a JAR executable... why?

Thanks

JN

Anonymous

> I mean, it is sponsored by SUN and Java is good for
> desktop apps, so why not to build Open Office in
> JAVA?

I hope I remeber the history correct:

Open Office was seperated from Star Office in 1998, 1999 (??). Star Office origionally came from Star Division, a small company which was located in Hamburg, Germany. After SUN bought Star Office (that was version 4 or 5 IIRC) the continued the development and to a recent point forked an open source edition.

At this time Star Office or Open Office was a big suite, hundreds of thounsands lines of C/C++ code. It wouldn't be wise to throw everything away to rewrite it in Java.

I remeber Corel working on a Java based office version but they failed. As far as I know their attempt was badly structured and it was running very slow :/

janunezc
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Joined: 2003-06-11

OK. Thanks for the good answer... I am still interested in good examples of functional Java Desktop Applications...

I have seen good demos of using sound, using look and feel, but an end application...still looking for it...

Regards.
JN

Anonymous

On SUN's website is a section called [i]Swing Sightings[/i] (http://java.sun.com/products/jfc/tsc/sightings/) here you can find a lot of Swing based applications for example.

Anonymous

> But I still think there is a pretty good set
> functionality in MS Visual Basic (VBA, VB6, VB.Net)
> that is inherent to the desktop arena such as Web
> Components, Pivot Table, Pivot Chart and so on...
> that I have come with a great(maybe ridiculous)
> idea...

Yes, the MS world offers nice and easy to use components. Java doesn't seem to offer this nice stuff, but this is not true. The Java package what you get from SUN is more a basic package you can build on. There are many ready developed solutions on the net, but you have to search a while :(

> Why not to develop such functionality as open
> standard objects in Open Source fashion... in
> Java...?

Before I start to develop something that sounds nice and usefull I try to find a solution which is already done. One place to search is Sourceforge for example (http://www.sourceforge.net). Sourceforge is a project base for OpenSource projects. You can for example setup your own project, write a description, offer job postings, etc. A CVS server, forums, web space is included. And that's all for free :) Usually I find something usefull when I search there.

> Do you think we may build some team to develop such
> functionality rev.1 for us as a community of
> developers?

Hm maybe, but first I'll try to find if something like a Pivot table is already done.

janunezc
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Joined: 2003-06-11

Sounds a good catch... I will check it out first.

THKS,

JN

zander
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Joined: 2003-06-13

A (small) list of widgets can be found at the wiki pages of JavaDesktop.org

When you found exiting widgets that you would recommend your friends (please only quite finished ones) please consider adding them there. Or send me an email so I can add them.

Cheers!

http://wiki.java.net/bin/view/Javadesktop/WebHome

zander at microweb dot nl

zander
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Joined: 2003-06-13

I'm absolutely not familiar with VB so I don't really know what you mean with Pivot table etc.

That said; there are many widgets for download available all over the net. Companies like Borland provide a big set in their builder.

My common experience with most of these widgets is that they are far from professional looking and fail to integrate with their environment. Try to find a good date-picker for example. I (well a collegue) wrote one myself after getting too frustrated with one horrible looking (GUI or code wise) datepicker after another.

The thing that is needed IMO is that the existing work is more prominently exposed; this means providing a jnlp, and an example and on-line javadocs.
Take a look at http://uic.sf.net/api in the widgets package for an example of what I mean. Ok, not all have the finished look I want, but the FontSelection and HSVSelector widgets do.

janunezc
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Joined: 2003-06-11

OK... That's one of the problems Open Source is aimed to solve...

Typically, enterprises have only some profit driven people developing their solutions, this means, they may sacrify functionality to reduce delivery times in a people constrained department...

Now, open source has world wide developers, that deal with the day to day needs, that have lots of experience in several areas and that can develop realy full featured classes for the community...

I will review the link you sent until tomorrow, because I got to go to some meetings at my job, so keep in contact.

Regards,
JN