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Real J2EE or "de facto" J2EE

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invalidname
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Joined: 2003-06-09
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What's more important for your work (and getting work): the Sun-certified J2EE standards (J2EE, JMX, JSF), or the "de facto" standards that have emerged from various open-source projects (Spring, Struts, Hibernate, etc.)? Do you put one on your resume but use another in your code? Please use this discussion to talk about what matters to you in your enterprise development.

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johnreynolds
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Joined: 2003-06-12
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> What's more important for your work (and getting
> work): the Sun-certified J2EE standards (J2EE, JMX,
> JSF), or the "de facto" standards that have emerged
> from various open-source projects (Spring, Struts,
> Hibernate, etc.)?

In my experience, "de facto" standards and "Sun" standards are yin-and-yang. For example, the "de facto" Struts requires the "Sun" Servlet container.

I have yet to work on any projects that didn't incorporate elements of "Sun" and "Popular"... for example EJB back-ends with Struts controllers.

Where "standards" compete, like JSF and Tapestry, my business brain is going to have to go with the "Sun" standard... but only because it has more tool support, and it's "good enough". That's what it really boils down to: Which standard provides the "better" solution. "Better" includes ease of development, ease of learning, and ease of long-term maintenance.

As a sometimes hiring manager, I am equally impressed by Java certification and experience with popular OS projects if I am hiring someone for a permanent position. If I am hiring a contractor, I am going to be looking for a specific skill... sometimes that's familiarity with a "de facto" standard, sometimes it's not.

jwenting
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Joined: 2003-12-02
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> In my experience, "de facto" standards and "Sun"
> standards are yin-and-yang. For example, the "de
> facto" Struts requires the "Sun" Servlet container.
>
Excellent example.

> I have yet to work on any projects that didn't
> incorporate elements of "Sun" and "Popular"... for
> example EJB back-ends with Struts controllers.
>
I doubt you can use any part of J2EE without using some Sun elements (since J2EE was after all created by Sun).
Is there even a competing framework left to compete with Servlets and JSP? I know there was SilverStream Pages which was a JSP alternative but it did use Serlvets under the hood.

OTOH if by "real J2EE" people mean EJB than the answer is a resounding YES to usind "de facto" J2EE instead of "real".
EJB is an overused system, many projects that employ it would have been better off without them.
I've never had a need for them (though the current project I'm working on might have benefitted from using EJB instead of a custom built solution but I wasn't around when that decision was made).