Showing messages 1 through 12 of 12.

• That was quick…
  2008-05-16 12:12:00 erickson [Reply | View]
  
  This poll didn't last too long, did it? I guess it didn't get the hoped-for response.

• Java is alive...
  2008-05-15 08:21:44 posttool [Reply | View]
  
  ... on the server. I cant understand why Sun won't focus on its core strength: the server.
  
  I am a designer and engineer. I use Flash/AS3 for client-side development and Java for the server. Sun should not attempt to play catch up w/ Adobe. Adobe has much more sensitivity to client-side developers.
  
  That said, I would not consider using AS3 for the server. Or .NET or PHP or Ruby, etc. I love writing Java for serious server side applications...
  
  Mina, BerkeleyDB Java edition, Apache Commons, etc etc etc... There are so many great packages for server side developers.
  
  SUN: WAKE UP! Focus on your core competency. Support your existing community. Don't attempt to look for a new community. You risk losing the existing one!!!!

• reading all the buzz
  2008-05-14 22:10:52 jwenting [Reply | View]
  
  One can't help feeling that Sun is jumping onto the old "Zuh Jav Iz Ded" bandwagon. Not an encouraging idea.

• Were all Desktop Java is gone ?
  2008-05-14 04:31:33 mac_systems [Reply | View]
  
  I read a lot of JavaFX but nothing about more on Desktop Java itself was to read. Were are Chet, Romian and the others ?
• Were all Desktop Java is gone ?
  2008-05-14 22:36:29 ewin [Reply | View]
  
  Don't worry. In one or two years there will be another "initiative" to revitalize the desktop. Not that it will help or work in any way, but that's the usual Sun procedure for more than a decade.

  Every few years Sun pretends to wake up, proclaims Java's breakthrough on the desktop is imminent, publishes a few marketing papers (from the usual suspects), and then forgets about doing abso-freaking-lutely any improvement. Or deity forgive, any bugfixing.

  The history of Java is littered with abandoned or half-done, bug-ridden APIs because at Sun they are quitters, not finishers. FX will be another one.

  For now FX gives a clear message. Sun has once again given up competing at the desktop. The previous filth rich client marketing bushwah failed spectacularly (guess why ...), the framework thing didn't take off (guess why ...), so for the moment Sun decided they don't want to push Java for serious desktop applications any more. Instead it has to be something for the web, artsy-hippy people: FX.

  But don't worry, after FX's failure, and after a brief stint in the "Enterprise rules the world" phase Sun will come back to the desktop. With yet another half thought through API, never to be going to be finished.

• Were all Desktop Java is gone ?
  2008-05-15 02:55:11 fabriziogiudici [Reply | View]
  
  

  It seems that there's a lot of misunderstandings about the relationship between Java and JavaFX. JavaFX is basically a new language compiled on the VM and some extension libraries. Most (if not all) of these extension libraries __will be accessible from the Java language as well__, in form of .jars and supported new APIs. For instance, it has been clearly said that the new video codecs will be available through the Java Media Component API, as well as the Java availability JWebKit component (a Swing, HTML component based on WebKit); we have less details, but the same holds true for the SceneGraph library (2D and 3D effects). The first two items are huge, historical gaps in the JDK that are going to be fixed. They will be part of the Java 7 enhancements, but available in form of JARs to add to the classpath for Java 6 (and possibly Java 5, even though this is not completely clear to me) starting from next June (early access) and Fall (final release). So JavaFX is not a "distraction" of resources from the desktop, it's just the opposite. You might want to read some discussion about that at DZone: http://java.dzone.com/articles/paying-price-javafx, where Dmitri Trembovetski from the Java2D engineering gave some pretty explicit information.

  To me, this is really good news for the desktop future. For what concern Chet and Romain, I'd like to recall that now they work for Adobe and Google. In spite of that, they were collecting a huge crowd of attendees at their J1 session "Filthier, Richer, Clienter" :-)

• Were all Desktop Java is gone ?
  2008-05-15 11:01:54 ewin [Reply | View]
  
  Thanks for listing some other Sun junk. Take the mentioned "Java Media Component API", for example.

  Who the fog needs that? It is not as if Sun doesn't have a media API. It is only that the quitters at Sun couldn't be arsed to support the Java Media Framework. It was neglected for years, disowned and left to die a slow painful dead. Sun: Quitters, not finishers.

  Developers having invested in it were left high and dry, taken for a ride by Sun, and Sun proved to not be a partner one can trust. Sun doesn't go where it hurts, maintaining their stuff. Instead Sun travels the easy marketing hype road to irrelevance. Sun: Quitters, not finishers.

  Now, on its way to irrelevance Sun comes up with some new junk. As if some manager at Sun wants to make a name for himself by showing some initiative. The "Java Media Component API" will die the same slow death as the JMF as soon as said manager got his promotion - or a job at Goggle. Sun: Quitters, not finishers.

  Anyone knowing Sun's past "performance" and Sun's utter failure to demonstrate a change in behavior can't recommend the uptake of the Java Media Component API or FX or that other junk you listed. It is DOA. Hey, we are talking about the company that didn't even manage to maintain the JavaComm API for Windows. And the same quitters should now be trusted to maintain another media API? Ha, pull the other one.

  So JavaFX is not a "distraction" of resources from the desktop

  Of course it is. It distracts from the real desktop issues (which isn't fancy graphics). It takes programming resources away. Resources badly needed for bugfixing. For the life of me I can't figure out how a software development company doesn't manage to fix things like JFileChooser but puts resources on that FX junk. One has to be pretty incompetent to run software development his way.

  The same holds for that filthy rich client nonsense. As if that addresses any real-world problems. Ok, it solved two problems. It advanced the careers of these two guys. Good riddance.

• Were all Desktop Java is gone ?
  2008-05-15 05:35:17 jwenting [Reply | View]
  
  doesn't matter. Ewin summed up how people look at pretty much anything Sun does to Java these last several years. It's all hype and marketing driven nonsense, implemented in flawed and halfhearted fashion, doomed to failure because the people implementing it don't even themselves believe in what they're doing.

  As a result people are sticking with what works, 1.4 and to a degree 1.5, while gaining proficiency in things like .NET so they have an exit strategy when the ship finally sinks.

  Sun's attitude is loosing them the very people they need most, the experienced professionals, because of their constant hammering to get more inexperienced kids eager to try every new hype to jump onto the bandwagon, kids who will just as readily jump off again when something "new" appears on the horizon, something like Scala, Flex, Silverlight, or whatever.

• Were all Desktop Java is gone ?
  2008-05-15 02:53:39 fabriziogiudici [Reply | View]
  
  

  It seems that there's a lot of misunderstandings about the relationship between Java and JavaFX. JavaFX is basically a new language compiled on the VM and some extension libraries. Most (if not all) of these extension libraries __will be accessible from the Java language as well__, in form of .jars and supported new APIs. For instance, it has been clearly said that the new video codecs will be available through the Java Media Component API, as well as the Java availability JWebKit component (a Swing, HTML component based on WebKit); we have less details, but the same holds true for the SceneGraph library (2D and 3D effects). The first two items are huge, historical gaps in the JDK that are going to be fixed. They will be part of the Java 7 enhancements, but available in form of JARs to add to the classpath for Java 6 (and possibly Java 5, even though this is not completely clear to me) starting from next June (early access) and Fall (final release). So JavaFX is not a "distraction" of resources from the desktop, it's just the opposite. You might want to read some discussion about that at DZone: http://java.dzone.com/articles/paying-price-javafx, where Dmitri Trembovetski from the Java2D engineering gave some pretty explicit information.

  To me, this is really good news for the desktop future. For what concern Chet and Romain, I'd like to recall that now they work for Adobe and Google. In spite of that, they were collecting a huge crowd of attendees at their J1 session "Filthier, Richer, Clienter" :-)

• No JavaFX...
  2008-05-12 13:22:25 heliorodrigues [Reply | View]
  
  We have a RIA project to do, but even JavaFX compiler isn't finished yet...
  
  We'll be using Flex now :-(

• I was not there...
  2008-05-12 11:11:53 aberrant [Reply | View]
  
  but I remember people hyping at some point or another the following.
  
  • JavaFX "Non-Programmer" Authoring Tool
  • Nimbus color/style editor
  I've seen no blog posts about these two items. I assume that they were not released at JavaOne.
  
• I was not there...
  2008-05-15 02:44:07 fabriziogiudici [Reply | View]
  
  

  Nimbus is part of Java 6 Update 10, which is scheduled for Fall. But we have an early access that can be tried, and of course there was a specific session at J1.

  For what concerns the "non programmer tool", it has been demonstrated at the keynote an Adobe Photoshop plugin that allows to export graphics into a form directly usable by JavaFX. I believe there has been also a specific session on it, but I couldn't attend it.